Work/life balance should be difficult • Hacker News Board

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#141

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:07 AM UTC

supernovae wrote: post #105

disambiguation wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're also doing a trick here. While it's not necessary that everyone works, some work is necessary. If people stopped showing up to the farms, or the water treatment plants, everyone would die. So, someone has to work. Labeling "we need work" as only a social fact is a misguided kind of relativism. "Society has created arbitrary weights and values on which work gets rewards, therefore we only need work if w…

I've always wondered why we don't switch to a 20-30 hour work week or 4 work days a week... And not in some bs "part time vs full time" but that we have enough humans on this freakin planet that you should only need to work 30 hours a week to live a healthy, balanced life.

You can and some people choose that. Same as you can choose to have only one adult in a pair do paid work.

What happens is that other humans do more hours of work per household and outbid you on things that you might otherwise want. Some people are OK with that and go on to live happy lives. Others get frustrated and join the race to keep up with the others. (Which I think is a choice that people should have; I would strongly oppose taking that choice away, but the end result is that lots of people are working lots of hours to buy lots of things.)

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#142

Post by kelseyfrog » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #138

what_is_orcas wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I want to say "well how does sitting in a basement with 10 other people making data go from server a to database fit into that" but I feel like the common answer boils down to "ETL is just an abstraction of that work. It takes the place of finding food because [capitalism]"... so yeah, in capitalism, you're right. But capitalism is bad and is a bad excuse to do so many of the things that we do. I'd love to hear a…

Capitalism can only be "bad" in relation to some other specific alternative. What are you proposing exactly?

It can just be bad. Requiring a superior alternative us another kind of trick. Identifying problems and providing solutions are two different things. Combining the two is a clever way to set an artificial bar on what can be discussed.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#143

Post by refurb » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:32 AM UTC

supernovae wrote: post #105

disambiguation wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're also doing a trick here. While it's not necessary that everyone works, some work is necessary. If people stopped showing up to the farms, or the water treatment plants, everyone would die. So, someone has to work. Labeling "we need work" as only a social fact is a misguided kind of relativism. "Society has created arbitrary weights and values on which work gets rewards, therefore we only need work if w…

I've always wondered why we don't switch to a 20-30 hour work week or 4 work days a week... And not in some bs "part time vs full time" but that we have enough humans on this freakin planet that you should only need to work 30 hours a week to live a healthy, balanced life.

We certainly could but every one then needs to accept a lower standard of living.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#144

Post by musicale » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:52 AM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #30

I'm not sure how "Dad sold his soul to work, regretted it forever, but couldn't change his ways" leads to the conclusion that "work/life balance should be difficult." It's not really that hard, especially in STEM, where we tend to make more than enough money to meet basic needs. So, maximize your enjoyment, or your family's enjoyment. The equation is a bit different for everybody, but there's absolutely zero reason t…

> It's not really that hard, especially in STEM

Most tech companies I'm familiar with (and probably companies in other fields as well) seem to think they own you, body and soul, and take issue with any indications otherwise.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#145

Post by dionidium » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 AM UTC

what_is_orcas wrote: post #133

dionidium wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most (I avoid saying all, because I'm not that smart) animals, when not surviving (finding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex) are super idle. It's energetically expensive to work, and, so far as I can tell, nothing has evolved to be energetically stressed. "[F]inding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex" is the work I'm talking about. So, yes, animals are either working or they're "super idle."…

Ok, I want to say "well how does sitting in a basement with 10 other people making data go from server a to database fit into that" but I feel like the common answer boils down to "ETL is just an abstraction of that work. It takes the place of finding food because [capitalism]"... so yeah, in capitalism, you're right. But capitalism is bad and is a bad excuse to do so many of the things that we do. I'd love to hear a…

We're probably just really, really far apart on potentially every point on which this conversation might want to turn. For example, I'm a capitalist and from your short response above it's likely that what I think is obvious is the exact opposite of everything you think is obvious, so I'm not sure there's hope of resolving much here.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#146

Post by waddlesworth » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

goldcountry wrote: post #12

This is a stupid take. Work life balance could be easy if we didn't live in a system that forced you to sell your life to wealthy sociopaths in exchange for the right to exist.

I'm inclined to agree. Maybe I would have phrased it differently, but the only counter to this I've seen here is "what if society didn't exist?"

It doesn't need to be taken to that extreme. I find it hard to believe that the idea that work must take up all of your time, and any less means you're going to starve is this pervasive.

It is not unimaginable that we can improve things. We're constantly making improvements to efficiency, productivity, sustainability. We get more done in our time now than at any point in history. The same will be true tomorrow.

Why then, are so many still working such grueling hours?

In this country, and many others, the share of productivity gains has increasingly gone to capital rather than labor. Although I think that this is only part of it. Part of it is cultural, this ideology that work gives life meaning, and to reject it can mean losing a lot.

I'm pretty lucky myself, my job doesn't stress me out, it pays the bills and leaves me with some disposable income. A lot of people would describe me as unambitious, not driven, etc. I'd say I have it made.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#147

Post by kube-system » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

adamcstephens wrote: post #127

kube-system wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art, entertainment, and communication are not new human creations. These jobs are the result of psychological needs that humans have. Maslow's Hierarchy is more than a cave, nuts, and berries. Furthermore, not everyone can survive without specialization of labor. Prior to specialization of labor, it was much more common for people to die young, and the world's population reflected this.

Was it the specialization of labor, or the harnessing of vasts quantities of stored energy in fossil fuels? I’d wager on the latter.

Agriculture brought 2 or 3 orders of magnitude in population growth. Industrialization of fossil fuels brought about 1.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#148

Post by digianarchist » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:54 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #139

digianarchist wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this is why the FIRE movement has become more popular in recent years?

Has it become more popular, or just more visible on social media?

Good point. I have no data in interest vs execution.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#149

Post by ordiel » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 4:02 AM UTC

I work for a living, I don't live for work.

Giving too much importance to work is stupid (IMHO) and its a highway to feeling your life was entire shit by the end of it whenever that is... I think this pandemic serves as the best example to how disposable you are to a company... Just one more replacable cog in the machine...

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#150

Post by xupybd » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #126

nostrademons wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that was the author's message at all. Rather, I think that this post is about balance , and about being emotionally present. He's saying that it should be a constant struggle to balance off things that you care about, because that shows you care . The only way to avoid the struggle is to cease caring, and that means you push something out of your mind that you really should be paying attention to becaus…

>He's saying that it should be a constant struggle to balance off things that you care about, because that shows you care Yay, survival should be a struggle, because it shows you care (about increasing the ROI for the shareholders you'll never see)! "We need work" is justified by "we need shelter and food". The only thing a constant struggle shows is that you don't have the freedom to choose how you spend your life.…

I think we need work for more than food and shelter. We need a place in the world, something to strive for and something to help us find meaning.

You complete with others to stretch yourself.

People that build huge businesses keep push and building for more. Many like the money but are more motivated by the Vision of what they're building.

There is something built into us that wants to strive that wants to work.

Hobbies don't satisfy the same need. Hobbies are self directed and motivated. You don't get the same sense of achievement.

That said grinding 40 hours a week as a process worker is life sucking. That is not a good long term way of being. You need a hope of moving up to make that worth it.