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Work/life balance should be difficult

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Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#131
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a bit of a lack of empathy in your response. First, not everyone has learned how to express affection, especially some of the previous generations. The author even wrote that the father wanted to be involved in his child's life, but did not have practice or models for being the kind of father the author wanted. It does not indicate cowardice. It could be very difficult to switch one's frame of view t…

> The author even wrote that the father wanted to be involved in his child's life, but did not have practice or models for being the kind of father the author wanted. then the author's father should have figured it out. i don't have a lot of sympathy for people in problem solving fields that, for the life of them, somehow can't solve for family. You read the docs (books), figure it out, and seek SME's for guidance. J…

> You read the docs (books), figure it out, and seek SME's for guidance. Just like everything else.

Going a little beyond the case of the article, for something like interpersonal relationships, there are as many methods as there are practitioners, many of them diametrically opposed to each other. What's considered best varies by culture, by demographics, fades in and out like fashion, works for some personalities and relationships and not others, might be harmful in ways not currently understood. It's not like math where there are empirically correct answers that can be logically proven. Certainly one can do what one considers best based on the current situation and general consensus, but I don't think it would be surprising if some people find that their best intentions are considered strange or unacceptable some time down the road, as society changes.

Getting back to the article, the author did not mention whether they talked to the father about their needs and wants. It is possible that the father thought he was solving for family quite adequately. We don't have both sides of the story.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

{Insert HN comment guideline about avoiding simplistic dismissals here}. > " Works for a prime-age healthy male of course. The data point is limited. " Not "of course"; it's typically said or implied that even prime-age healthy males would have to work like abused pack horses and still barely survive. A limited data point it is, but there is another - his same scheme includes elderly women building their own homes, a…

Yeah if he knew even one person back in America, he could arrange to return. Heck, just because he's American he has in his head the idea that he could go anywhere. He went there after all; he could go back. Pick at the verbiage all you like; an American playing at being a poor subsistence farmer is theatre. The guy gave a TED talk after all. Did he do that from his 3rd-world farm?

He isn't American. Come on, read something or watch something about him before replying like this.

> "Jon’s world view, from his upbringing in the rural fields of Northeastern Thailand"

> "Jon has over 30 years experience of being an organic farmer"

That's more than "playing".

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cute, but it doesn't make sense. Most (I avoid saying all, because I'm not that smart) animals, when not surviving (finding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex) are super idle. It's energetically expensive to work, and, so far as I can tell, nothing has evolved to be energetically stressed . If we're throwing around words like "evolution" we need to understand that we're talking about genetic surviva…

> Most (I avoid saying all, because I'm not that smart) animals, when not surviving (finding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex) are super idle. It's energetically expensive to work, and, so far as I can tell, nothing has evolved to be energetically stressed. "[F]inding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex" is the work I'm talking about. So, yes, animals are either working or they're "super idle."…

Ok, I want to say "well how does sitting in a basement with 10 other people making data go from server a to database fit into that" but I feel like the common answer boils down to "ETL is just an abstraction of that work. It takes the place of finding food because [capitalism]"... so yeah, in capitalism, you're right. But capitalism is bad and is a bad excuse to do so many of the things that we do.

I'd love to hear a different argument.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I know that I need a focus for my intellectual life. Would your abilities feel stretched by being a cashier? How about a janitor? Waiter? These jobs are what "work" actually is for most people. I think most people could go without doing those things. Intellectual stimulation, or goals that stretch one's abilities, don't have to come from work (and for most people those things and "work" are hardly relat…

I just went into the hardware store last week. The cashier at the store was talking to someone he knew. He actually took the job there because he had retired, and had nothing to do. So he works there for 20/hrs a week. So for him, he needed work. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all... but I do that kind of interesting. I like to think that if I had unlimited free time, there's no way I'd ever be bor…

> he had retired, and had nothing to do.

Or: having a public-facing job is something to do that also served as a social outlet for him (especially if it's related to his hobbies) that was free (how many social activities (the kind where you meet people, not the kind where you spend time with folks you already know) are free these days?).

Every time I go to a nursery I think about how much fun it would be to "work" there, if I didn't have to consider the pay, because I love plants and talking about plants and making chit-chat with strangers.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#135

The problem is basically sow/harvest. If you're in the situation most people are in, you need to eat today, and you need to eat tomorrow. Quite a lot is done to force kids to invest early on in their lives: go to school, don't get pregnant, don't waste your future. However at some point you have to get something out of life that isn't just potential. You can't eternally be building up to something that you'll enjoy l…

Do you think this is why the FIRE movement has become more popular in recent years?

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than a social fact. It's a consequence of living in a physical reality with physical wants and needs that require action to be satisfied. The best we can do is move the work around, and have someone else do it. (We can harness physical forces to take care of most of the work in the force-times-distance sense, but we're still a long way from moving the rest.) And the ultimate problem with moving it around so…

OP talks about 'work' in a particular way, as does the author of the piece. What we need is food, shelter and so on. 'Work' as in conflict with 'life' (i.e the work-life balance) is a social construct. It didn't always use to be that way, and it doesn't have to. That we have physical needs is a fact. That we have alienated work from life, or family, or expressing ourselves is not. That work created an absentee father…

Yes go ahead and ask someone on a family farm. Most of them see it as a way to get some food and money, not a way to express themselves. Some of them love it, others hate it but don't have a practical way to get out.

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're also doing a trick here. While it's not necessary that everyone works, some work is necessary. If people stopped showing up to the farms, or the water treatment plants, everyone would die. So, someone has to work. Labeling "we need work" as only a social fact is a misguided kind of relativism. "Society has created arbitrary weights and values on which work gets rewards, therefore we only need work if w…

I've always wondered why we don't switch to a 20-30 hour work week or 4 work days a week... And not in some bs "part time vs full time" but that we have enough humans on this freakin planet that you should only need to work 30 hours a week to live a healthy, balanced life.

If you want that lifestyle then go ahead. Most anyone can do it. Move to a cheap area and you can survive on a part time job.

https://www.kiplinger.com/real-estate/602609/cheapest-small-...

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most (I avoid saying all, because I'm not that smart) animals, when not surviving (finding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex) are super idle. It's energetically expensive to work, and, so far as I can tell, nothing has evolved to be energetically stressed. "[F]inding food, consuming food, finding sex, having sex" is the work I'm talking about. So, yes, animals are either working or they're "super idle."…

Ok, I want to say "well how does sitting in a basement with 10 other people making data go from server a to database fit into that" but I feel like the common answer boils down to "ETL is just an abstraction of that work. It takes the place of finding food because [capitalism]"... so yeah, in capitalism, you're right. But capitalism is bad and is a bad excuse to do so many of the things that we do. I'd love to hear a…

Capitalism can only be "bad" in relation to some other specific alternative. What are you proposing exactly?

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#139

The problem is basically sow/harvest. If you're in the situation most people are in, you need to eat today, and you need to eat tomorrow. Quite a lot is done to force kids to invest early on in their lives: go to school, don't get pregnant, don't waste your future. However at some point you have to get something out of life that isn't just potential. You can't eternally be building up to something that you'll enjoy l…

Do you think this is why the FIRE movement has become more popular in recent years?

Has it become more popular, or just more visible on social media?

Re: Work/life balance should be difficult

#140
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a bit of a lack of empathy in your response. First, not everyone has learned how to express affection, especially some of the previous generations. The author even wrote that the father wanted to be involved in his child's life, but did not have practice or models for being the kind of father the author wanted. It does not indicate cowardice. It could be very difficult to switch one's frame of view t…

> The author even wrote that the father wanted to be involved in his child's life, but did not have practice or models for being the kind of father the author wanted. then the author's father should have figured it out. i don't have a lot of sympathy for people in problem solving fields that, for the life of them, somehow can't solve for family. You read the docs (books), figure it out, and seek SME's for guidance. J…

There are a lot of authors with strong opinions but no real SMEs.
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