Web3 is going just great • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3 is going just great

#191

Post by xtracto » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

deltarholamda wrote: post #94

trunnell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the math and incentives are there. Can you elaborate on this? The best critiques of blockchain tech, cryptocurrencies, NFTs, DeFi, etc. describe fatal flaws at the core of those technologies. For example, the lack of monetary policy and regulations, privacy and security shortcomings, and high transaction costs. It'd be great to read a positive analysis of the core merits (the math and the incentives) and how th…

Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit, as I see it. That has some value, and NFTs are kind of the perfect vehicle to use the technology. But does it have any practical use? That's the question. NFTs are hot right now as an investment vehicle, or as a way for artists to sell unique creations (leading to investment vehicles, I suppose). I'm not sold on the utility, long term.

>NFTs are hot right now as an investment vehicle,

I'd say speculation more than investing.

The peoblem with public blockchains and related technologies is that they have been list in the middle of huge speculation markets... which brings all sorts of bullshit and scams.

That's why I like to look at hyperledger and similar technologies. If you remove the money incentives, you are left with the pure technology essence. And then you can judge it by what it is.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#192

Post by acdha » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

carlosdp wrote: post #182

acdha wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not so much proposing a word rather than trying to take over a popular one in an effort to shed the negative reputation which years of failure had given your first one. It’s not surprising that people who work on the web don’t want their hard work being coopted to bail the cryptocurrency guys out of a mess they talked themselves into.

This literally sounds like the whole "your gay marriage is ruining my marriage, just by existing" argument, but for the web. Like, what are we talking about here?

Something called “web” should use web technologies and culture? This feels like if the Git developers had tried to call it Web 3 — irrespective of the merits of the tool, it’s weird to present your business as the successor to a community you’re not part of.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#193

Post by culebron21 » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #115

deltarholamda wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit, as I see it. That has some value, and NFTs are kind of the perfect vehicle to use the technology. But does it have any practical use? That's the question. NFTs are hot right now as an investment vehicle, or as a way for artists to sell unique creations (leading to investment vehicles, I suppose). I'm not sold on the utility, long term.

> Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit > But does it have any practical use? That's the question. Sounds like a solution searching for a problem.

To me cryptocurrency sounds like monorail or electric bus. Both technologies were designed to fix one aspect of existing transport systems.

Monorail concept appeared around 1900, trying to reduce the elevated railways problem. One designer thought of reducing the use of metal. Wuppertal suspension railway uses much more metal for tracks than conventional trams. There is a special monorail in Britain, built in 1940s, that stands on A-shaped legs. The only rail is supported by some metal triangles, using the same amount of metal. Later models, first built in Disneyland, use concrete (which contains a lot more iron in the concrete itself besides the reinforcement), and rubber wheels (sacrificing the advantage of low friction). Their biggest problem is switches: they're heavy and huge. Suspended monorails use big box instead of a rail, because swaying carriages are uncomfortable, and to hold them, the track must resist the force of a long lever. Errr... what was the reason to go for all that, in the first place? Make simpler track and use less rails/metal? Not achieved at all.

Electric buses... just 2 words: they're 3-5 times more expensive, and a whole route of e-buses requires just as much electric equipment as trolleybus line. Plus, e-buses spend twice more time charging than riding. Which means you need to triple the fleet of triple-quintiple more expensive vehicles. Even if battery technology progresses, as some insist, let it improve for private, not public money.

It seems that blockchain is similar: couple of advantages, lots of big disadvantages.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#194

Post by nathias » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

tux3 wrote: post #36

DantesKite wrote: post #13

All the Web3 criticisms remind me of my experiences with Star Trek. For context, I never watched Star Trek. I'd read stories about fans and it always struck me as the dorkiest possible show, with unabashed nerdiness making something like the Big Bang Theory look like a sophisticated work of art. But one day, I listened to a podcast about strength training and a question came up about which Star Trek leader the host l…

So, that's a good argument for why you shouldn't dismiss a show or a thing in general based only on negative secondhand impressions. The lesson to takeaway is that you should judge a thing by its own quality, not by your negative impression of the fanbase. But from that, there is no way you should conclude that cynicism is wrong in general. You should not overreact to too much cynicism by discarding criticism entirel…

Cynicism should be discared because it's cynicism. It is a pathologicaly warped worldview misshapen by deep narcissism of people who got conned into believing something false and have instead of changing their beliefs made their disillusionment into their identity.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#195

Post by dontreact » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

erulabs wrote: post #139

pcwalton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would hard for me to make a case that eventually cryptocurrency will fail. It's easy for me to make that case. Ransomware aside, there's no underlying value in cryptocurrency, unlike currencies which have the full faith and credit of governments. This is a fundamental problem that I see no way around.

I'm sure you'll roll your eyes at this response, but a large chunk of economists don't believe there is value in anything. Your definition of "value" might mean "utility" or "what the US treasury says this is worth", or something else entirely. Starting a discussion with "well, it doesn't have any value" is more or less meaningless, and borders on economically illiterate, excuse the harshness. My stuffed animal from…

What's going to happen when people start trying to retire by selling crypto?

Many people will be selling at the same time, and suddenly the subjective value for everyone will be lower because it will be easier and easier to buy it.

My sense is that there is a cap on the demand for purchasing crypto, but the supply is very low because mining decreases over time, and generally people holding lots of crypto are younger and have no need to sell in order to pay for things, they can just pay with their fiat income.

This equation will change drastically as people start to retire and need to sell lots of crypto in order to fund their lifestyle without working.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#196

Post by neilparikh » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #136

DantesKite wrote: post #13

All the Web3 criticisms remind me of my experiences with Star Trek. For context, I never watched Star Trek. I'd read stories about fans and it always struck me as the dorkiest possible show, with unabashed nerdiness making something like the Big Bang Theory look like a sophisticated work of art. But one day, I listened to a podcast about strength training and a question came up about which Star Trek leader the host l…

Instrumentalizing a show whose essential message was that living in a post-scarcity society is possible and where people pursue their interests genuinely rather than in the name of economic gain to make a case for crypto is so on brand with the actual post we're commenting on you could put it directly on the website Let's just listen to the man himself for a second, while we're talking about star trek and money: http…

It's even more ironic, because the entire point of NFTs is to create artificial scarcity in an environment without scarcity (the digital world).

I guess you could argue that NFTs isn't the main aspect of cryptocurrencies, and I think you'd be right, but I find cryptocurrency projects in general seem to lean heavily into the scarcity aspect, and promise that early adopters will be able to cash in that scarcity later.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#197

Post by Joeboy » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #169

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit > But does it have any practical use? That's the question. Sounds like a solution searching for a problem.

You have described what a home computer was in the 80s. It found many problems.

Did it? Today's computers are mostly descendents of more heavyweight '80s computers. I know there are like a few C64s running webservers and stuff for kicks.

Home computers were good for games or learning to program, not sure they were actually that useful outside of those things.

Edit: Ok Atari STs were good for music and Amigas were apparently good for graphics rendering.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#198

Post by Yizahi » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

fab1an wrote: post #48

I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. Consider this: if you are absolutely, 100% convinced that all of this is bogus, is going to go nowhere (despite the high number of talented individuals…

Why do you thing HN and for example /r/programming communities are united in telling visitors that Web3 is scam, cryptocurrencies is a scam and so on? Maybe it's a time to stop and reflect on their opinion, instead of blindly listening to blatant lies?

(before anyone writes indignant answer to me - for example "NFT facilitates decentralized proof of ownership" is a complete and utter lie in our face, "like "black is white", and it was written by multiple users just in this topic, and same happened in every other discussion too, it's always the same story and the same lies)

Re: Web3 is going just great

#199

Post by systemvoltage » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

papito wrote: post #189

systemvoltage wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m apathetic about all of this, I don’t have a horse in this race, I’m not placing any bets.

Yes, you do have a horse, if you live on Earth (I am not being snarky). World's democracies are backsliding, while we are all trading monkey NFTs.

I agree, democracies are getting hammered. But it’s not because we are busy with experimental blockchain tech. That said - I found your response deeply unpleasant and imposing. Now I do have a horse to ignore you from telling me what to think and do.

Think deeply about what you just did. “If you’re on the sidelines and not playing the game, you’re an enemy”. That sounds exactly opposite of democracy. It sounds like Authoritarianism.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#200

Post by gowld » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #18

I hate this web3 bs as much as the next guy But, this seems more a list of people doing stupid shit with blockchain-y things, and not an argument against it as a whole. That doesn't distinguish blockchain that much from other technologies (e.g. consider WWW during the hype of dot-com bubble). I pretty much believe its all absolute bullshit, but picking some egregious examples, while amusing, doesn't really show that.

OK, I want to use a new web3 product. How do I know it's one of the good ones and not a scame?