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Web3 is going just great

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Re: Web3 is going just great

#181

Post by acdha »

fab1an wrote: post #48

I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. Consider this: if you are absolutely, 100% convinced that all of this is bogus, is going to go nowhere (despite the high number of talented individuals…

For me it comes down to utility: the web was full of immediate, obviously beneficial things you could do with it and that just grew with web 2.0. Normal people would come to you with ideas about how it’d make their lives or businesses better.

Cryptocurrency has been the opposite: we’re over a decade into endless talking it up from the sales people but there’s still no reason to buy in unless you like day trading. The pitch of “wouldn’t it be great if everyday life was as full of microtransactions as a mid-2000s mobile game?” just isn’t appealing, and the need to recruit others so your down line makes you rich is actively repellent to many, especially for those of us who grew up in an era where the dream of the web was making everything accessible to everyone, not just the rich.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#182

Post by carlosdp »

acdha wrote: post #117
carlosdp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how words work. You propose a term, and either it catches on or it doesn't, and this one has caught on. I don't know what committee of developers "that don't own/trade cryptocurrencies" you imagine exists that has some authority on what marketing terms you can use on twitter, or why a group explicitly disinterested in a topic should be consulted in the creation of those terms...

It’s not so much proposing a word rather than trying to take over a popular one in an effort to shed the negative reputation which years of failure had given your first one. It’s not surprising that people who work on the web don’t want their hard work being coopted to bail the cryptocurrency guys out of a mess they talked themselves into.

This literally sounds like the whole "your gay marriage is ruining my marriage, just by existing" argument, but for the web. Like, what are we talking about here?

Re: Web3 is going just great

#183

Post by Yizahi »

leadingthenet wrote: post #134
pcwalton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would hard for me to make a case that eventually cryptocurrency will fail. It's easy for me to make that case. Ransomware aside, there's no underlying value in cryptocurrency, unlike currencies which have the full faith and credit of governments. This is a fundamental problem that I see no way around.

> there's no underlying value in cryptocurrency Of course, there is a value: it's a decentralized write-only database that can be used for things like proof of ownership without the requirement of a central authority. A famous use-case is the illicit online drug trade, which cannot currently be achieved (to my knowledge) with fiat currencies. It might never replace government-backed currencies (or it just might, who…

No, it can't be used for "proof of ownership" at all. Crypto only barely works because it lives inside blockchain completely. Anything external to the blockchain (which is practically everything) can't be verified using blockchain. Only using some centralized and opaque/corrupt additions to the blockchain some rights can be maybe transferred (but not enforced even then), but at that point blockchain is useless can be safely removed if data is stored centrally.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#184

Post by ipaddr »

Yizahi wrote: post #150
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the math and incentives are there. It would hard for me to make a case that eventually cryptocurrency will fail. This strikes at one of my primary complaints with crypto/web3 discussions: Advocates switch between specific cryptocurrencies, cryptocurrency in general, and the concept of a blockchain in general as convenient for their arguments. The concept of a cryptocurrency will always exist, but that doesn't m…

This concept (context switching) reminds me of the current USSR fans (yes, they exist). They pick and choose ONLY the positive parts of each specific decade of USSR history as it fits them and blindly ignore all the negatives. E.g. some bit of space race (the successful part of course) ignoring gulag which facilitated it; the victory part of WW2 ignoring all other countries and it's own participation in 39-40; the co…

You'll find you can play that game with anything people are passionate about. Global warning, the US, Trump, Obama..BLM..Cuomo, Rust

Re: Web3 is going just great

#185

Post by brandon272 »

cogman10 wrote: post #159
pcwalton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would hard for me to make a case that eventually cryptocurrency will fail. It's easy for me to make that case. Ransomware aside, there's no underlying value in cryptocurrency, unlike currencies which have the full faith and credit of governments. This is a fundamental problem that I see no way around.

Most currencies have no underlying value. The value of a dollar is drawn from dollar supply and trust that others will accept and value the dollar. When a currency goes through hyperinflation, that generally happens because the government goes crazy printing the currency and the trust that others have in accepting the currency goes down. If crypto collapses, it will likely be because it just becomes computationally i…

Hyperinflation after money printing is not the result of "trust going down". It's the result of increased dollars increasing aggregate demand in a system that cannot keep up with productive capacity.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#186

Post by carlosdp »

brightstep wrote: post #50
carlosdp wrote: post #45

These really well built "web3 is dumb" sites seem like peak Streisand Effect, I'm baffled so many people are spending so much time yelling about something they think has "no use-case" and is already doomed to fail...

The sooner it dies, the less carbon we'll dump into the atmosphere so people can buy monkey jpegs

I could turn all blockchains off tomorrow and I guarantee nobody would notice the effect on the climate on any graphs that matter.

Oil/gas/energy loves that everyone is for some reason concentrating on crypto as if it's the biggest polluter on the planet, so they get a break in the media.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#188

Post by acdha »

fastball wrote: post #142
acdha wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not so much proposing a word rather than trying to take over a popular one in an effort to shed the negative reputation which years of failure had given your first one. It’s not surprising that people who work on the web don’t want their hard work being coopted to bail the cryptocurrency guys out of a mess they talked themselves into.

"web3" was certainly not a popular term before it was popularized by Ethereum / the crypto space. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=web3

No, the semweb people didn’t make that stick but cryptocurrencies don’t have much to do with the web, either. It’s a different model, tech stack, and culture and that’s what I was referring to.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#189

Post by papito »

systemvoltage wrote: post #106
papito wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And instead of fixing politics, we are just going to have our own un-governed thing over here. Run away from out problems, lets open another bottle. It will be great then.

I’m apathetic about all of this, I don’t have a horse in this race, I’m not placing any bets.

Yes, you do have a horse, if you live on Earth (I am not being snarky). World's democracies are backsliding, while we are all trading monkey NFTs.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#190

Post by 3np »

kreeben wrote: post #145
3np wrote: post #46

The defining feature of Web3 is the absence of any central single-point-of-failure, moderation, or coercion in the technical stack - including individuals and businesses. Federated and/or P2P. Scrolling a bit, I see from the top: NFTs shilled on Twitter, centralized cryptocurrency exchanges getting hacked, things hosted on AWS, Peter Molyneux doing his thing... I don’t see a single example of Web3. Or even projects o…

>> coercion in the technical stack Here are some things that I sincerely don't understand about DAO's. That tech stack that you speak of, it needs to become deployed onto a server before the public can interface with it. Who does that? Will every pull request become an NFT? Ok, so now you have an NFT and it's a crucial bug fix but what if most people don't want it to become deployed? What if I own the server and I re…

> That tech stack that you speak of, it needs to become deployed onto a server before the public can interface with it. Who does that?

The whole point of Web3 is that, no, it does not need to be deployed onto a server. Backends and frontends should be decoupled enough that in your given disagreement-scenario, you as the server-owner would be “forked away”. Think of the FreeNode/Libera debacle. The presence of a DAO doesn’t change anything in that sense.

> Will every pull request become an NFT?

I don’t see why any PR would need to be tokenized. There’s no need for transferable ownership (as opposed to authorship) of a PR. Or am I missing why this would be useful? (Aside: Who holds ownership of the PRs I make on GitHub.com on “your” repository today? Me, you, Microsoft, or “the community”? There are valid arguments for all of the above and it feels like a question of little practical use)

> Since when can blockchains own things?

They can’t. But they can keep track of who owns what. And smart contracts, including DAOs, can take programmed actions with the assets or informations it has acquired from others.

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