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Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#301

Post by strken »

q1w2 wrote: post #223
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

This is essentially creating an auto-immune disease in old age - by having the body target it's own cells. It's also not clear how the researchers prevented the immune cells from dying in the Thymus (who's function is specifically to prevent immune cells from being coded to attack cells in the body - it's like a UAT environment). ...but the bigger question would be - If this protein encoded a protein that identified…

Why would surviving longer in old age be adaptive? The trade-off could be as simple as "you're mostly infertile, any children you do have will have higher rates of genetic disease, and being healthier means you're alive and active enough to compete with your kids and grandkids for food and mates".

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#302

Post by ClumsyPilot »

randmeerkat wrote: post #261
Jedd wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s an interesting idea, but how would you measure happiness? This (the measuring, at least) is mostly a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

> This (the measuring, at least) is mostly a solved problem. I disagree. I’m familiar with the world happiness report. I don’t think that would be an adequate measurement to replace GDP with.

"adequate measurement to replace GDP with"

There seems to be annunderlying assimption that GDP is a good meaurement?

In UK we had reduction of life expectancy, wages, trade and production of physical goods while GDP grew. The only sources of GDP growth seem to be never-ending rise of house prices and inequality.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#303

Post by ClumsyPilot »

randmeerkat wrote: post #297
throwaway984393 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older people are happier than younger people, pretty much every such survey confirms it. Young people don't appreciate their looks and health when they have it.

I’m not sure about that, there’s been all sorts of studies about old people and loneliness. The loneliness is so bad it impacts their health: http://www.nia.nih.gov/news/social-isolation-loneliness-olde... I would be genuinely surprised if older people are happier than younger people.

Lonelyness seems to be a problem of social institutions rather than physical defficiency?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#304

Post by ClumsyPilot »

satisfaction wrote: post #228
labster wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution can optimize for longer lifespans if it makes propagation more favorable. It happened in humans — grandparents make us more successful. Except when they run our governments.

We need to evolve past the point where we expect to rely on government.

Back to anarchy?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#305

Post by ganeshkrishnan »

Jedd wrote: post #257
randmeerkat wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an interesting idea, but how would you measure happiness? For example coal pollutes, so at first glance maybe coal plants should get a negative happiness index. Then some plants close, and heating costs go up and people get cold because they can’t afford the electric heat in their homes. Are they happier without the coal? Would they be happier with the coal and the pollution? Does this solve the problem in a way…

> It’s an interesting idea, but how would you measure happiness? This (the measuring, at least) is mostly a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Happiness is a direct co-relation to GDP. The growth of a civilization is directly as a result of GDP.

For example being in nature brings you happiness. BUT this is only in well developed countries and among people with enough wealth to live comfortably.

Money does not make you happy but it gives you much more opportunity to be happy.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#306

Post by strken »

ixfo wrote: post #260
zemvpferreira wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of money and no red tape.

Red tape in the medical trials domain is forged from blood. Human experimentation is limited and carefully managed for very good reasons. Killing people to extend other people's lives is not a good tradeoff.

Voluntary human experimentation is less clear-cut. Having watched the decline of members of my family through their 80s and 90s, some of whom have clearly wanted to die in the last few years, I'd seriously consider taking a risky treatment for senescence at that age. Trading the worst years of your life for medical data and a tiny bit of hope could be a good deal.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#307

Post by mlcrypto »

obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

Your view is too optimistic. We have all our financial problems now because baby boomers have been racking up unfunded liabilities and competing with millennials for the same jobs in the age of automation.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#308

Post by ClumsyPilot »

q1w2 wrote: post #223
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

This is essentially creating an auto-immune disease in old age - by having the body target it's own cells. It's also not clear how the researchers prevented the immune cells from dying in the Thymus (who's function is specifically to prevent immune cells from being coded to attack cells in the body - it's like a UAT environment). ...but the bigger question would be - If this protein encoded a protein that identified…

"It's more likely that there is some trade-off which we have not discovered yet."

Clearly some tradeoffs are less relevant today than they were to a tribe of cavemen. Even if grandpa is in great shape, he will have a hard time hunting thay wooley mamoth, and having him around too long will be too many mouths to feed.

Also it's hypothetically possible to give everyone a ripped physique without gym memberships, downside of this would be increased protein consumption.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#309

Post by [deleted] »

hsn915 wrote: post #295
BurningFrog wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a deep misunderstanding of what jobs are. They're not "things" that exist in a limited supply. You can think of them as relationships between people. When population increases, no one worries that society will "run out" of friendships or marriages. Jobs work the same way.

Actually they do. Without naming names, let's assume two populations, A and B. A-Females are willing to marry B-Males, but B-Females are not willing to marry A-Males. This creates lots of abundance for B-Males and lots of scarcity for A-Makes. As for jobs, in theory they can always be created a new. But in practice there are 1) very few people who can create jobs 2) external forces that might prevent new jobs from be…

[deleted]

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#310

Post by randmeerkat »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #305
Jedd wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s an interesting idea, but how would you measure happiness? This (the measuring, at least) is mostly a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Happiness is a direct co-relation to GDP. The growth of a civilization is directly as a result of GDP. For example being in nature brings you happiness. BUT this is only in well developed countries and among people with enough wealth to live comfortably. Money does not make you happy but it gives you much more opportunity to be happy.

> Happiness is a direct co-relation to GDP. The growth of a civilization is directly as a result of GDP.

That’s actually not correct. By that argument the happiest country should be the United States as it has the largest GDP. However the United States ranks #19 on the World Happiness Report: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-...

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