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Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#241

Post by pharke »

booleandilemma wrote: post #25
mensetmanusman wrote: post #12

For the sake of discussion, which age would you want to pause at? 16, 24 for insurance reasons?

16 is way too young. Assuming brain development is paused at that age, society would descend into some kind of Lord of the Flies hellscape.

Lord of the Flies is such a tired example to hold forth. It's purely fictional and not generally representative of human behaviour. There is even a recorded incident of school boys being stranded on an island and living perfectly peacefully for more than a year https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-...

Yes, humans can be violent but we are obviously more predisposed to be cooperative otherwise we would have never made it this far as a species. You can't put 10,000 unrelated members of any other species in one place and not expect chaos, with humans it's no problem as long as everyone involved has food in their bellies and the promise of going home after a few hours. That's our real defining trait, getting along with each other, our intelligence wouldn't do a lick of good if we didn't have that.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#242

Post by khazhoux »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #197
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

>Economically and ethically, we should prioritize this research above most else. This research and all similar research (and sentiments like yours, which I strongly agree with) remind me of the classic Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant.[0] It feels as though we are finally on the cusp of learning the shape of the armaments that will one day slay the dragon. And I wish the world could band together the way we attacked COVID…

Ugh, that was a slog to read.

TLDR: a big dragon (represents aging) kills tens of thousands of people every day, until the people invest in technology to defeat it, and then vaguely wish they'd started the research sooner.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#243

Post by andrekandre »

majkinetor wrote: post #104
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are very risk averse of taking vaccines, while they are incredibly safe and barely have any risk associated with them. Probably more harm is done because people are too afraid of taking a vaccine than the opposite (not only looking at covid19 vaccines). The biggest harm done by taking vaccines you don't really need is probably that the money could have been used for something more useful.

Barely have any acute risk. Its almost impossible to find out what happens after long time, say a decade, with the current approach. > The biggest harm done by taking vaccines you don't really need is probably that the money could have been used for something more useful. What kind of nonsense is that? Its the same as saying "there is no problem in taking any drug, the worst it can get is lose some money". You can't…

  > say a decade, with the current approach.
what could happen a decade after taking a vaccine?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#244

Post by xwdv »

q1w2 wrote: post #223
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

This is essentially creating an auto-immune disease in old age - by having the body target it's own cells. It's also not clear how the researchers prevented the immune cells from dying in the Thymus (who's function is specifically to prevent immune cells from being coded to attack cells in the body - it's like a UAT environment). ...but the bigger question would be - If this protein encoded a protein that identified…

Natural selection up to this point has prioritized for a good time, not a long time.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#245

Post by khazhoux »

Jansen312 wrote: post #167
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #2

Sign me up for this the second it is available. As an aside, to spite anti vaxxers I’m on a mission to get every vaccine I can. I want my bloodstream to be like the Library at Alexandria before it burned down.

Yeah, why be immuned when you can be invincible. Keep us updated when you gotten all the vax injected. How you plan to deal with recurring one that become ineffective fast like the rabbies vax. You scheduled every couple of weeks? Maybe an online blog and checklist to motivate others to compete who get jabbed the most.

A blog is a great idea, though it probably won't be very interesting. Unless he happens to have adverse reactions (which are rare), there won't be anything to report on except "I still feel fine and I still haven't contracted xyz."

As for the rabies vaccine, I don't think you can just ask for that to be administered -- unless, I suppose, you lie about being bitten by a random animal. As an aside, I have amusing memories of my own rabies vaccine 25 years ago -- a series of injections of thick syrup into my butt.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#246

Post by randmeerkat »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #238
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

Maybe instead of maximising GDP we should maximise happiness and there's plenty of low hanging fruit. I mean people are still starving to death and dying of preventable diseases...

It’s an interesting idea, but how would you measure happiness? For example coal pollutes, so at first glance maybe coal plants should get a negative happiness index. Then some plants close, and heating costs go up and people get cold because they can’t afford the electric heat in their homes. Are they happier without the coal? Would they be happier with the coal and the pollution? Does this solve the problem in a way that GDP measures can’t?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#247

Post by sumedh »

BurningFrog wrote: post #218
sumedh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They'd work So less jobs for young people.

This is a deep misunderstanding of what jobs are. They're not "things" that exist in a limited supply. You can think of them as relationships between people. When population increases, no one worries that society will "run out" of friendships or marriages. Jobs work the same way.

I think you misunderstood how jobs work.

They do exist in a limited supply. When a factory closes down and outsources all the jobs in a town, your job goes away.

When a robot starts doing your job, you are not needed anymore for that job. People in ivory towers expect that you should easily retrain and find new jobs that does not happen for the average joe.

When an immigrant is willing to do your job for less money or less safety, you dont get that job unless you are willing to compromise.

Now with all this you are going to have older people not retire then you are reducing the job pool for younger folks.

> Jobs work the same way.

In reality smart politicians can tap into the fear and frustration of average folks when good paying jobs run out and they promise they will bring back jobs, so voters vote for them.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#248

Post by [deleted] »

satisfaction wrote: post #228
labster wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution can optimize for longer lifespans if it makes propagation more favorable. It happened in humans — grandparents make us more successful. Except when they run our governments.

We need to evolve past the point where we expect to rely on government.

[deleted]

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#249

Post by ChainOfFools »

robbedpeter wrote: post #222
ColFrancis wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs shouldn't be a limited resource.

Jobs creating wagon wheels are a limited resource. As humans are able to automate activities that span the creation of everything we find valuable, from resource collection to manufacture to transportation to design to art, that necessarily limits the economic efficiency of using humans for labor. The last 3 years have demonstrated that creative tasks are highly susceptible to automation, with most artistic automatio…

Henry Ford II: Walter, how are you going to get these robots to pay your union dues?

Walter Reuther: Henry, how are you going to get them to buy your cars?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#250

Post by Glyptodon »

q1w2 wrote: post #223
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

This is essentially creating an auto-immune disease in old age - by having the body target it's own cells. It's also not clear how the researchers prevented the immune cells from dying in the Thymus (who's function is specifically to prevent immune cells from being coded to attack cells in the body - it's like a UAT environment). ...but the bigger question would be - If this protein encoded a protein that identified…

There's doesn't have to be a major (from our perspective) trade-off if historically the benefit under selection was very marginal, probably somewhat more so both because of menopause and historical lifespans often being shorter.
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