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Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

latimes.com

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Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#131

Post by beeboop »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #103
tqi wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who shares a road with Teslas, it feels like I have been enrolled in this beta without my consent, and without any tangible benefits to me. What are the arguments for why non-owners should support this approach?

As someone who shares (reality) with (people), it feels like I have been enrolled in this beta (consisting of taking photos, video recording, coughing, driving) without my consent, and without any tangible benefits to me. What are the arguments for why non-owners should support this approach?

I have a dash cam in my Yaris. It's not any different than a Tesla recording video around you.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#132

Post by satisfice »

If I had the money to buy an expensive car, I would want to drive it myself. If I could buy an airplane, I would want to fly it myself, too.

I don’t understand rich guys who fork over for what is essentially a baby carriage pushed by a robot nanny. Where is your self-respect?

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#133

Post by beeboop »

mcot2 wrote: post #57

Actual user of the beta here. Happy to answer any questions that are honest. My opinion is let the technology develop in the open, warts and all.

Having seen many hours of FSD beta on Youtube, with the most recent updates, I am convinced the FSD driving is safer on the highway than humans driving. I bet the stats for accidents per mile driven are much lower for FSD than humans. It does stumble, very gracefully, in really unusual circumstances when driving in city streets. But it's so so close to covering these outlier situations.

If I could choose to have only FSD teslas around me on the highway, or only human drivers, I'd pick the FSD every time.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#134

Post by sundaeofshock »

mcot2 wrote: post #71
TigeriusKirk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Tesla testing FSD on open roads is probably going to cost lives. I think they're aware of the game they're playing and they're taking more risks than is responsible. I also believe the driver in that video doesn't have the level-headedness to be testing anything anywhere. Which is a criticism both of the driver and of Tesla for letting people like that run the software on the open road.

I think it is a calculated risk to get to autonomy faster and thus save lives.

Sure, there is a risk pedestrians and people in other cars will die. However, Elon is brave enough to take that risk!

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#135

Post by beeboop »

jakear wrote: post #111

This is why I drive a big truck. When egomaniacs can trick the government into allowing them to set their half baked creations loose on public roads using unknowing and unwilling third parties as test subjects, I want to be the dominant term in any and all conservation of momentum equations that may ensue. As an aside, I’ve driven maybe 50,000 miles in my lifetime. Of those, 47,000+ are using pre-2005 vehicles with z…

What's funny about this is the safety ratings for Teslas are much better than any big trucks.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#136

Post by beeboop »

ra7 wrote: post #19
gadnuk wrote: post #2

As they should, from all agencies involved. It is absolutely horrifying to see Tesla do this open beta test on public roads when no other non-Tesla entities (other cars, pedestrians, motorcyclists, bicyclists, etc) consented to being a part of a reckless experiment. Moreover, Tesla influencers on social media tend to cherry pick and show only the nicer parts of their FSD Beta drives where no incidents and disengageme…

It’s not just Tesla influencers vehemently defending FSD, but videos showing dangerous FSD behavior are also taken down very quickly using DMCA. It seems like there is a concerted effort to suppress “bad videos” that breaks the self driving narrative. Latest example: https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/14694217625553510...

The DMCA take down was by the original recorder of the video towards the person that re-uploaded it on Youtube without permission. Tesla had nothing to do with it.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#137

Post by alistairSH »

lanevorockz wrote: post #129
alistairSH wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking why the DMV is allowing beta-quality autonomous driving systems on public roads is “corruption”? Lol.

Who determines Beta-Quality ? What you complain here is something all developed countries already allow, anyways .. let the lobbyist bribe whoever they want.

Tesla does. The program is literally called “Full Self Drive (FSD) Beta”!

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#138

Post by loeg »

ModernMech wrote: post #128
loeg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The utilitarian argument doesn't require that they be better than every human driver in every condition -- just that they be better enough against the average situation that outcomes are net better.

I don't think that's right, because human drivers are exceedingly good at handling the average situation. If they weren't, you'd have accidents literally all the time. The average situation is accident-free. How much can you improve on that? The utilitarian argument for driverless cars needs to be that driverless cars are better at handling the edge cases than humans, because that's when accidents happen.

I think you’re confusing “better” and merely “good,” as well as “average” and “mode.”

The average situation is maybe 0.99 accident-free (made up number for illustration). You improve on that by being 0.995 accident-free, which is better.

I agree that “safer than some human drivers in some conditions” is insufficient.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#139

Post by alistairSH »

mcot2 wrote: post #95
wpietri wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand how you think your opinion entitles you to gamble with other people's lives.

Because I don’t view it that way as an actual user of the system. I know I am still in full control of the vehicle as is any driver using it. Merely tapping the brakes is hardwired to return control to the driver. The system also has many controls to montior driver attentivness and alert or disable itself if the driver is not attentive. Recently folks have been kicked out of the beta program for lots of reasons so th…

The system also has many controls to montior driver attentivness and alert or disable itself if the driver is not attentive.

Sorry, but they same system lets the driver play video games while driving down the road[1] which is kinda the opposite of what you claim.

1 - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/07/business/tesla-video-game...

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#140

Post by dbsmith83 »

mcot2 wrote: post #27
dbsmith83 wrote: post #13

> ...cited the apparent poor performance of what Tesla calls Full Self-Driving beta, a $10,000 option that gives owners advanced automated driving features and allows them to test cutting-edge autonomous technologies on public roads. (Beta is a software term that describes a product not quite ready for general sale to the public.) Wait, does this mean people are actually paying extra money to become test dummies for…

Edited to remove snarky reply of: “No, you should do some basic research first.” The FSD beta is no additional cost over the (currently) $10,000 package that adds additional AP capabilities and hardware upgrades. My computer was already upgraded for example.

> “No, you should do some basic research first.”

Why should I? I read the article and can ask/talk about it here--discussion is literally the point.

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