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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#711
post #559
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope I am the sort of person would have supported Rosa Parks — if I’d been on a jury, I want to be the sort of person who would have voted “not guilty” by way of jury annulment. Four boxes is a reason to take things slow, not a reason to say “no not like that” when the first steps have failed. And when the law bites someone for breaking it, if you think the law is wrong you should support the victim of the law; but…

>Four boxes is a reason to take things slow Yeah, that's what I was referring to. MLK had a specific, rather famous riposte to this attitude because of how common it was: "I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negr…

I think you’ve misunderstood me: I’m agreeing with MLK — It’s not my call to make to say when someone moves from one to the next, and I will only go so far as to place those four boxes in that sequence.

But let me turn this around to demonstrate why such an ordering is desirable: lynchings in the USA disproportionately targeted African Americans. Those mobs were full of people who often claimed to be enforcing justice, but they were reaching straight for the 4th box.

And again, this is only even a consideration for people who care about rule of law. I can easily believe that many rights activists — women’s equality, race equality, Stonewall, independence movements in then-European colonies — had no possible reason to care about rule of law, because the law was never on their side. Anyone in that situation, I’d expect to reach for #4 first because it’s the only tool even available.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#712
post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire post is opinion and contains no information, factual or otherwise.

So, just like yours? How does this add anything?

I think you might misunderstand the difference between opinion and fact.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planning to commit a murder or a terrorist attack is a felony that will put an individual in prison for a long time.

> Planning to commit a murder or a terrorist attack is a felony that will put an individual in prison for a long Unless it is with other people and, more critically, at least one of the people involved goes beyond planning and takes some concrete step to advance the execution of the plan (at which point it becomes the separate crime of conspiracy), no, planning a crime, even of that seriousness, is not itself a crime…

Just writing death threat for the president online is a crime.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Buddhi

No other concrete step is needed.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#714
post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ministry that decides on truths? I wonder what that could be called!

The Ministry of Lies, obviously. Point taken.

Tbh I wasn't really making a point, I just thought it was a funny association

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives. I am not speaking of first amendment of individuals which I think is also under attack by the same group of people, look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t l…

> My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives. The founders largely were oligarchs, heirs of oligarchs, or married into the families of oligarchs,and certainly were not people to whom the idea of someone, or some group, within that class i…

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#716
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces. All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.

> They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails The issue there was precisely how he was emphatically not acting as a journalist. Journalists do not coordinate news releases with their preferred candidates. Political operatives do.

>Journalists do not coordinate news releases with their preferred candidates

That's basically a press conference, which are both a mainstay of journalism and you'll see particularly well connected journalists leak what a press conference will be about before it happens.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Planning to commit a murder or a terrorist attack is a felony that will put an individual in prison for a long Unless it is with other people and, more critically, at least one of the people involved goes beyond planning and takes some concrete step to advance the execution of the plan (at which point it becomes the separate crime of conspiracy), no, planning a crime, even of that seriousness, is not itself a crime…

Just writing death threat for the president online is a crime. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Buddhi No other concrete step is needed.

A threat is not the same as planning.

Planning to kill someone is not a crime. Threatening to is, even if they aren't the President.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#718

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

As a non-US citizen, that's what I find most troubling about this. Change the countries and it's immediately apparent how absurd it is: Imagine a US citizen living in Mexico exposed some Peruvian state secrets (doing something which isn't a crime in Mexico), and now Peru is applying pressure to extradite the guy. Chances are everybody involved would laugh in Peru's face, so why does the UK entertain this in Assange's…

Julia Gillard threw him under the bus, and nobody's tried to drag him out ever since, as far as I'm aware.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#719
> This is the message to would-be activists anywhere: Stay out of the big boy pool or we'll make you regret it.

The thing is they did this so systematically, Jacob Applebaum also got hit with rape allegations and that took out a very vocal person in the OPSEC/INFOSEC community at TOR who openly engaged in the various communities that were most afflicted by Imperialism and needed this tech the most in the developed World.

I don't know Jacob, and never met him in person the closest being with him on a few chatrooms I joined late around one of the CCC conferences; it was very telling that after Julian's rape charges were dropped Jacob (a very well known cypherpunk within Julian's circle) had his fall from grace at the height of the me-too craze and this happened when Laura's documentary came out on Julian Assange after Edward Snowden's had come out earlier in 2014.

The cynic in me said this looked like typical Media Blackout but with Nation-State repercussions. The State of the Onion was always covered in so many media outlets, and Jacob's candor and open hostility towards tyrants was partly the reason for that. I still remember the face of all the suits when he went to Egypt after the Arab Spring and told off the Telecoms for being aligned with the Mubarack regime until the last days, all while trying to play up the idea of Egyptian solidarity post-collapse.

I doubt this will ever entirely deter whistleblowing and freedom fighting entirely, it's never been a large segment of the population, either. But those who do so have an immense impact is often felt all over the World: Steven Donziger after being jailed, and now released on house arrest, seems undeterred from continuing what he started [0]:

> Donziger, who had already spent over two years under house arrest before his prison sentence, vowed to continue fighting for his freedom and to hold Chevron accountable for its crimes.

People forget that prior to Wikileaks, and the Cypherpunk mailing list, Julian was the son of a politically active, anti-nuclear mother and that he had hacked into several departments of the DoD, supposedly to find more intel on Nuclear sites. He pleaded guilty in 1994 and got a fine and it only made him more determined than he was before. He was a known target by the intelligence agencies for some time.

Having been in the CCC (I miss these so much as they were the best part of this time of year for me) and Bitcoin community for over 10 years Julian was always around; Julian thanking the US for making Wikileaks millions (from donation appreciation in 2010 onward) after denying Wikileaks Visa and MC payment processing and forcing them to use Bitcoin was the highlight of that year for me.

It has been hard to see what has happened to him since he was forced to stay in the Ecuadorian embassy, it was clear his mental health was degrading and the once flamboyant and silver-tongued activist was slowly being destroyed from within.

I'm not sure how much of him is left anymore, and I even spoke to a friend about this over the summer during the hearings, that the guy in prison is likely no longer the same person who ran wikileaks. He seems like a shell of his former self that I'm afraid to say seems in poor physical and mental after all he has gone through--it's why I don't be grudge Jacob from simply fading into oblivion, it's simply self-perseverance. I say this with a hjeavy heart: I doubt he would even make it to trail at this rate.

A part of me always wondered if this was always going to be Julian's fate, hoping it never would of course, but when you're this prominent and this big a threat to the intelligence agencies of the only super power left in the World known to commit crimes against Humanity you have to believe you're probably on borrowed time the moment they know who you are.

Which to me is why projects like anon-based whistle blowing, an early Bitcoin project that never gained much traction and eventually abandoned, was always fundamental in order to avoid situations like these while still enuring a viable option for those who want to release info to the public. I fear a World in which whistle blowing doesn't take place, and I don't mean the kind like Frances Haugen who is looking at an immense payday for stating the obvious on a platform that is becoming less relevant by the day and have even re-branded entirely, but those like: Chelsea Manning, Thomas Drake, Bill Binney etc...

May those who do have the courage to come forward have unwavering souls, because the World is a darker place without them.

0: https://www.democracynow.org/2021/12/10/headlines/environmen...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#720
post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is also worth noting that julian didnt jump any fence. He received and published data full stop. The only espionage was on part of the whistleblowers.

> In 2010, Assange gained unauthorized access to a government computer system of a NATO country. In 2012, Assange communicated directly with a leader of the hacking group LulzSec (who by then was cooperating with the FBI), and provided a list of targets for LulzSec to hack. With respect to one target, Assange asked the LulzSec leader to look for (and provide to WikiLeaks) mail and documents, databases and pdfs. In an…

> leader of the hacking group LulzSec (who by then was cooperating with the FBI)

Is this the same hacker who has gone on public record that he got paid by the FBI to lie , and as a result was later redacted from the court documents?

Paying for false witnesses is such a classic and really makes for a strong case.

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