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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#381

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #313
mercy_dude wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most infuriating among all of them has been our media - specifically mainstream media. They have played the entire saga down and in many cases many mainstream media pundits actively espoused for Assanges punishment [1]. I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. Mainstream media right now has no other purpose other than being active vehicle of the powerful and b…

> I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. That, uh, might be a bit of an overcorrection.

There seems to be a push reject all news as of late. It's scary.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#382

Post by unknownus3r »

mandmandam wrote: post #342
unknownus3r wrote: post #326

I’m from the US and from my perspective he’s certainly an enemy of my country and working to undermine it. A country cannot function if nameless underlings do not carry out the agenda set forth by the elected and appointed people in charge. There are many problems with entrenched bureaucracy but having secrets leaked weakens American power and our government’s ability to handle the problems we face. If you see mudge’…

If you love America then why would you allow brazen warmongers to put us trillions in debt, profiting immensely while doing so? Do you have any idea how far America's international reputation has fallen? Do you have any conception of the debt that has been incurred in the name of the American taxpayer? Do the lives of millions of dead and tens of millions of displaced people around the world mean nothing to you? Assa…

I don’t see what Assange really showed me that I didn’t know from reading most anything else before his leaks. Your post is highly politically motivated, I’m not emotional about this, just thinking rationally. I agree that the US has overextended its military and is involved in a lot of conflicts and operations that seem very irrelevant and poorly reasoned. I want a revamp of the military industrial complex and a change to entrenched, unaccountable bureaucracy. I don’t think any of those things have anything to do with Assange however, and I don’t see any connection between them

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#383

Post by lenkite »

mrsuprawsm wrote: post #264
pydry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.

Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces.

All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#384

Post by Retric »

sharikous wrote: post #378
pydry wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on. In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House pr…

It very much depends on the context. In this particular case the US government managed to establish a deterrence too my making him an example. So I would say the effect is actually in the other direction. That is less activism of that type, not more. And the connection is not only tenuous. You are making a very general mild claim based on scant evidence. Your consideration is valid but very weak.

Activism isn’t the point.

Yes, governments make it hard and will go so far as to actually kill people. It’s still a moderating influence and a feedback mechanism before civil war. I may not agree with them or even care about the issue, but I still respect the sacrifice.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#385

Post by seoaeu »

phone8675309 wrote: post #99
kome wrote: post #13

Young people IMHO have no idea what's going on. In one line: Assange in 2010 revealed and gave clear proof of American war crimes in Iraq https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Collateral_Murder,_5_Apr_2010 - now the US wants him dead. That's how imperialism works. Today is a sad day for all freedom and peace lovers. Edit: just to be clear, the perpetrators of those barbarous war crimes, and their superiors, never had to face ju…

"Can't we just drone this guy?" -- about Julian Assange from the candidate in the 2016 presidential election that got the largest share of the popular vote

Cry me a river. The vendetta clearly went both ways given what Assange was willing to do to sabotage her campaign.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#386

Post by mercy_dude »

ceejayoz wrote: post #361
mercy_dude wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well can you elaborate why you think it is? Because the way I see it, it gives unwavering and constitutionally guaranteed way for billionaires to control the narratives - in addition to the power they already have been wielding through owning politicians using lobbyists and having protection through section 230 in all the stakes they own in the social media companies. That’s what has been happening in the media space…

> Well can you elaborate why you think it is? Because "we'll revoke your First Amendment rights if we don't like how you're using them" is a very big step on a very steep and very slippery slope. Assange's defense is likely to revolve around the First Amendment. Weakening it would hurt him, even.

My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives. I am not speaking of first amendment of individuals which I think is also under attack by the same group of people, look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t like.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#387

Post by spacechild1 »

unknownus3r wrote: post #326

I’m from the US and from my perspective he’s certainly an enemy of my country and working to undermine it. A country cannot function if nameless underlings do not carry out the agenda set forth by the elected and appointed people in charge. There are many problems with entrenched bureaucracy but having secrets leaked weakens American power and our government’s ability to handle the problems we face. If you see mudge’…

> but he’s working against the United States.

Why do you think everybody on the world has to work in the interests of the United States? He is not a US citizen and he did not operate on US soil.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#388

Post by mhh__ »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #356
iam-TJ wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks" [0] 26th September 2021 Yahoo News Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks Zach Dorfman, Sean D. Naylor and Michael Isikoff September 26, 2021, 10:00 AM·39 min read In this article: In 2017, as Julian Assange began his fifth year holed up in Ecuador’s em…

Talk is cheap. Did they carry it out?

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#389

Post by ceejayoz »

mercy_dude wrote: post #386
ceejayoz wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well can you elaborate why you think it is? Because "we'll revoke your First Amendment rights if we don't like how you're using them" is a very big step on a very steep and very slippery slope. Assange's defense is likely to revolve around the First Amendment. Weakening it would hurt him, even.

My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives. I am not speaking of first amendment of individuals which I think is also under attack by the same group of people, look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t l…

The idea that people who lived in a time of tarring-and-feathering people couldn't anticipate cancel culture is a bit silly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Brown_(loyalist)

> Brown requested the liberty to hold his own opinions, saying that he could "never enter into an Engagement to take up arms against the Country which gave him being", and finally met their demands with pistol and sword. The crowd seized him and struck him with the butt of a musket, fracturing his skull. Taken prisoner, he was tied to a tree where he was roasted by fire and scalped before being tarred and feathered. Brown was then carted through a number of nearby settlements and forced to verbally pledge himself to the Patriot cause before being released. This mistreatment resulted in the loss of two toes and lifelong headaches.

Cancelling someone is also known as freedom of association.

edit: Media stirring shit up was a thing pre-Revolution, too, including at least two Founding Fathers participating themselves! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre#Media_battle

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#390

Post by shadowgovt »

pydry wrote: post #256
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

I suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.

If he was willing to be a martyr, he would not have holed up in an embassy seeking asylum for years.
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