Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#701

Post by kingcharles » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

Hitton wrote: post #480

kingcharles wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just recently got out of jail, I can tell you it is infinitely easy to kill yourself. You would not believe the ingenuity of some of those attempts and successes. If the institution gets a hint that you are suicidal you will be placed in some sort of anti-suicide cell, which generally means that you are in solitary, you wear a paper or foam suit with no other clothing, you have no bed linen or any paper materi…

Such measures would make you want to commit suicide even if you weren't suicidal before.

Yes, indeed.

I also failed to mention the light in the cell will be set to bright and will be on 24x7 and your cell will almost certainly have a completely glass door and you will be under camera and guard surveillance 24x7 to make sure you don't do anything stupid. If you are very lucky, some of these cells have a small wall in front of the toilet so you can at least get a tiny amount of privacy - they'll only be able to see you from the waist up.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#702

Post by dane-pgp » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #390

pydry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.

If he was willing to be a martyr, he would not have holed up in an embassy seeking asylum for years.

It's remarkable how casually people demand sacrifices of others as a condition for taking their activism seriously.

There's basically no limit to how much someone can demand, e.g. "Well, if he was really committed to transparency, he would have tried breaking into the White House with a camera", or "If he was really prepared to risk dying to bring these leaks to people's attention, he should have self-immolated in front of the US embassy".

Personally, the metric I use is, if someone has achieved more for a good cause than me, and suffered more for it than I would, then they are a martyr for that cause and deserve my respect.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#703

Post by monocasa » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #295

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

This is ridiculous. Assange is alleged to have cooperated with a member of the US forces to release gigabytes of diplomatic cables etc. - which is possibly a crime. In all but rare cases, you absolutely do not have the right to break into systems of national security and release arbitrary information under the guise of 'journalism'. His extradition is perfectly rational, legal and judicially legitimate. The Abu Garib…

The Abu Gharib whistleblower's name was supposed to not be released, but instead Donald Rumsfeld himself leaked it, and his family had to be put into protective custody because of the constant death threats they were receiving from other service members and families of service members.

Donald Rumsfeld then later wrote a letter to the whistleblower telling him to stop telling people that Rumsfeld had been the one to leak his name.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#704

Post by nebula8804 » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:44 PM UTC

varelse wrote: post #695

nebula8804 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of things you can do at the executive level that recent administration don't have the guts to do. Declare a medical emergency on account of COVID-19 and bam, there is a provision in the laws that allows you to expand medicare to the entire population. That alone would guarantee re-election. Free all non-violent marijuana prisoners, Forgive student debt. That alone would be a boost to the economy as a…

I think you deeply underestimate the influence of the corporate media in influencing the opinions of the masses. But apparently America went through something like this right after the Civil War where everyone had an opinion on everything and all that led to was corporations amassing power for a half century.

That affects you when trying to get elected. I'd argue a strong candidate who takes no BS is something that the people are clamoring for. Trump fit that bill to an extant but he was an idiot and a bigot. He had a real opportunity to enact real change but he blew it.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#705

Post by dane-pgp » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #654

mercy_dude wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because he did the right thing, not the wrong thing. And who defines the right or wrong? Assange revealed among many things how CIA collects data of US citizens abusing patriot act without warrants.

"And who defines the right or wrong?" The Law under the purview of the Justice System, which is why they are pressing for a trial.

If you believe that The Law defines what is right and wrong, then surely it can never be right to change The Law? Maybe you don't actually believe that, but I think it is important to consider just how large the gap between The Law and What Is Right has been, at various times in the past, and in various places.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#706

Post by themself » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:55 PM UTC

mercy_dude wrote: post #283

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

The most infuriating among all of them has been our media - specifically mainstream media. They have played the entire saga down and in many cases many mainstream media pundits actively espoused for Assanges punishment [1]. I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. Mainstream media right now has no other purpose other than being active vehicle of the powerful and b…

I mostly feel contempt for the mainstream media nowdays, but that does nothing to diminish my support for their right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is most important for those whose speech we think is harmful and don't want to be spoken. Nothing would be more dangerous than letting those with the greatest capacity for and willingness to use violence (e.g. governments) decide what speech should be allowed.

Anyone who cares about freedom of speech for anyone should defend it for everyone because if nazis, tankies, and journalists can't have freedom of speech, none of us can. First they came for... you know how the rest goes.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#707

Post by sumedh » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #262

lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

- the alleged crimes were committed against the US, i.e his participation in the exfiltration of secret data from US government. Surely his physical location when committing these crimes should have no bearing on whether it's a criminal matter. - calling him a journalist is a mighty stretch even before he started, let's call it his "full-stack collaboration" with the Russians - Manning served the time and is thus fre…

> Manning served the time

Didnt Obama commute his sentence?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#708

Post by d1lanka » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:11 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

> This is the message to would-be activists anywhere: Stay out of the big boy pool or we'll make you regret it.

Check your expenses before waging war.

Or, you need to band together with an international band of investigative journalists like the ICIJ: https://www.icij.org (who released the Pandora Papers) or do it intelligently like Snowden.

The most Ballsy of people in this category has to be the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny: https://youtu.be/kHgI6um1BMc IMO.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#709

Post by cyanydeez » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:14 AM UTC

mariusor wrote: post #571

cyanydeez wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately he switched from citizen journalist to selective propaganda release and russian propaganda washing.

Are you saying that just because they released truthful information that was supplied to them (and it happens to be against your preferred side of the political spectrum) they are guilty of propaganda, or is there any proof that wikileaks rejected authentic documents concerning "the other side"?

let say you are an oracle, and you have access to all the truths.

if you pick and choose which ones to release, you absolutely are propagandizing, trying to use selective information to misinform.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#710

Post by TwoHeadedBeast » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:16 AM UTC

tremon wrote: post #469

ChrisKnott wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically which of these assurances are you saying will be broken?

Who is going to oversee and enforce these promises? The UK High Court? When the US violates their promises, will the High Court Judge personally fly to the US to collect Assange and bring him back to the UK?

In fairness, the US would be idiotic to renege on their assurances. That essentially would be a valid reason to block any future extraditions.

Saying that, we live in strange times where countries like the UK, which always used to play by the rules, albeit the ones they wrote, now backs out of treaties where the ink is barely dry.