Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect Assange does not want to be tortured and murdered and thus does not want this. Are you insane ?
I doubt the US intends to murder him.
Except the time they were plotting to murder him, of course.
Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
371–380 of 792 posts
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might have been partially activist, that still doesn't justify the extradition. The US had no standing, as I believe it's called. They can declare whatever they want "top secret", but that doesn't make a crime for a citizen of another country to publish it. The hacking and conspiracy claims have been added to make it appear as if they have standing, but these are empty. It's another triumph for big budget lawyer c…
I do not think it is a loss for freedom of the press, I think it is an opportunity for the courts to define what a journalist actually is, vs. not. Perhaps the courts will side with Assange and we will find that this is First Amendment protected activity. I personally do not believe it is, but I do think that this situation is a bit unique to modern times and is likely to set precedent one way or the other.
I think it shows that you can put a lid on foreign journalism by drawing your chequebook. Just add a few indictments from the extradition agreement. The UK courts clearly haven't sided with Assange.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
>"What "games" would YOU play to get out of being extradited to a foreign country for crimes of publishing factual information?" The crime he is charged with has nothing to do with publication of anything, it's a charge stemming from his help attempting to crack a password hash of military computer accounts to help gain unauthorized access to military systems. Are foreigners allowed to hack military networks in your…
> Are foreigners allowed to hack military networks in your country? Yes, it happens all day every day. Assange didn't even "hack" anything, he allegedly helped educate Manning, no different than a text file or a 2600 article. Manning committed the crime, she was the one bound by US laws, not Assange. We could hand over every journo who has aided classified foreign information being published in US media, it's the sam…
Assange received a hashed password and said he passed it onto his "LM guy"
He later asks for the status on the hash.
Do reporters usually help people break the law?
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#374I’m from the US and from my perspective he’s certainly an enemy of my country and working to undermine it. A country cannot function if nameless underlings do not carry out the agenda set forth by the elected and appointed people in charge. There are many problems with entrenched bureaucracy but having secrets leaked weakens American power and our government’s ability to handle the problems we face. If you see mudge’…
The problem is not that he's an enemy of US government interests. Sure he is. The problem is the hypocrisy. The US claims moral superiority, advocates for the non-persecution of journalists, free speech, rule of law and judicial due process, "democracy" etc. in other countries, but it's all lies and hypocrisy. The US criticizes "authoritarian regimes" like Russia in cases like Navalny, whereas the US is no different…
Please show me any country on this earth that doesn’t have its share of hypocrisy. I cannot think of a single one. I know and agree that the US is hypocritical but abusing the law to get a guy who’s inciting American security personnel to break their oaths is not the same as poisoning a citizen of the same country for disagreeing over politics and it’s disingenuous of you to equate that. Just as many China boosters here are trying to equate Assange’s treatment with concentration camps for millions of people
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plenty of people get extradited from the US to face charges abroad. Sacoolas is more an exception than a rule. Likely the only reason why she would not be extradited is because she's a "diplomat" (aka a spook or the wife of a spook). It kinda sucks that the US protects members of its intelligence services from criminal charges abroad, but the fact that it does that is kinda irrelevant to whether other, unrelated extr…
>Plenty of people get extradited from the US to face charges abroad. Sure. People whom the US doesn't give a fuck about. "At their leisure" and "one rule for us; another for you" still applies. Sacoolas wasn't an exception in any meaningful sense. She is very much the rule.
I guess my point is that this goes for all countries. "Diplomats" are often not prosecuted or extradited for crimes committed abroad. It's not just the US that takes advantage of this system -- and I haven't even seen evidence that the US is an exception to the norm in this space. The "uses and abuses" section of the relevant page on Wikipedia has plenty of examples, and there are probably many more that don't make the news. It is not a novel thing and is basically irrelevant to whether Assange ought to be extradited.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming he gets to trial, and has lawyers that understand how to use the media, I think it may be difficult to convince the entire jury to prosecute. Rehashing US war crimes, which would certainly come up, won't be great for the prosecution either.
Almost 50% of Americans voted for Trump. Almost 50% did it again a second time. It's not that Voting for Trump is in any way related to being against Assange (It's my understanding that Wikileaks is well liked within that community), but I've learned to to speculate on what Americans might do. I've taken to just expecting the worst possible outcome from any decision.
Half the people I know who voted for Trump are pro-Assange.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#377This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…
There are countries which do not bend before others. Russia, China, Iran to name a few examples. They can protect those fleeing from the West. Just like West can protect people from those countries. World is not unipolar.
Can't imagine why anyone would want to run to China to hide from the U.S. of all places, in this scenario.
"I'm going to flee from one dystopian state, to another even more dystopian/technocratic/autocratic state!"
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.
I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on. In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House pr…
It very much depends on the context. In this particular case the US government managed to establish a deterrence too my making him an example.
So I would say the effect is actually in the other direction. That is less activism of that type, not more.
And the connection is not only tenuous. You are making a very general mild claim based on scant evidence. Your consideration is valid but very weak.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
But you're assuming that the UK court made a decision that is against their law. Why is extradition an incorrect decision?
For example - given the ample (and basically) record of U.S. authorities in regard to their treatment of so-called High Value Detainees -- and even of very low-value detainees at is borders, as we have seen in recent years -- the High Court had no reason whatsoever to lend credence to the so-called "assurances" they cited in their ruling: The High Court said Friday that it had received appropriate assurances from the…
Specifically which of these assurances are you saying will be broken?
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-US citizen, that's what I find most troubling about this. Change the countries and it's immediately apparent how absurd it is: Imagine a US citizen living in Mexico exposed some Peruvian state secrets (doing something which isn't a crime in Mexico), and now Peru is applying pressure to extradite the guy. Chances are everybody involved would laugh in Peru's face, so why does the UK entertain this in Assange's…
Welcome to international politics? Any kind of moral or justice is a farce, it’s all about power.
Extradition treaties are carefully worded, but yes, they are rooted in power politics.
The judge in this case, followed the rule of the extradition treaty law...
...but then again, ALL laws are rooted in the initial power politics that set them in motion.