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Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

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Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#61
post #33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like the brain has several layers of conscious states. The brain consumes many calories and thinking hard can make you tired. Especially if you have been very productive for a long time and then hit a wall. At the point of mental exhaustion, the brain desires sleep. You fall asleep and begin having a psychosis. The brain uses symbols that represent the psychosis causing hallucination. There is something about b…

What does psychosis actually refer to? I've heard the term but am not familiar with its official meaning

The formal definition according to Google is "a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality", so I guess technically, a dream meets that definition.

I think the commenter you're responding to is also referring to the way that in a psychotic state, all actions make sense to the psychotic person. The "psycho" stops following a deductive/conscious/scientific logic chain, and starts following inductive/subconscious/superstitious logic chain, all while perceiving internally a consistent narrative of reality.

Examples in the difference in logic chains:

- In a non-psychotic state, when I'm in my bedroom and notice that I am cold, I do not start a fire, because (a) fire is dangerous inside; (b) I remember that I have blankets, an HVAC system, etc.

- In a psychotic state (either dreaming or awake), when I'm in my bedroom and notice that I am cold, I might start a fire, because (a) an angel told me to; (b) it will protect me from the spirits in the darkness; (c) I believe the heating system is broken (even if I haven't looked at it) and I'm worried I'll freeze to death...

One cannot personally perceive psychosis while psychotic--reality always makes sense in the moment. Even the most demented Alzheimer's patient will construct a narrative of what's happening to them, even if it's just a vague sense of prehistoric fear and rage at the strange object invading their space (which in reality is a nurse trying to give them a bath).

I imagine you already know this but in case anyone who's reading doesn't: people who are labelled as "bipolar" uncontrollably enter mental states of varying degrees of psychosis where they often perform actions that hurt themselves and others, and then eventually they "return to reality" and are frequently horrified to discover what it is they've done. The "return to reality" sometimes requires medication and therapy. Observe: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/i-would-like-closure-bu....

It's not all bad for people who are diagnosed bipolar, though--sometimes instead of anger or fear, a manic/bipolar person experiences happiness/love/joy and creates a great work of art or makes everyone around them feel really good. I doubt that most bipolar-diagnosed people enjoy the down-swings, though, and I suspect most would rather be rid of their "condition".

Another, slightly-related example about how psychosis works: if you understand a concept perfectly when someone else explains it, and you can't explain it to yourself once they're gone, you've experienced your mind perceive what appeared to be "reality" but was not, in fact, real. While the explainer was talking to you, you perceived that you understood the concept, and you experienced the sensation of understanding, but since you didn't actually understand, you were in a state not completely like but similar to what is call psychosis.

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#62
post #52
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does psychosis actually refer to? I've heard the term but am not familiar with its official meaning

To those suffering it, it is normal reality, but to those observing it, it is chaos.

I also have some personal experience with psychosis, although I don't want to disclose it on HN. How do you personally know when you're done experiencing it and have "returned to normal"?

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#63
post #2

"As legend goes, Edison would sit in a chair when he got sleepy, holding a ball bearing in his left hand. Soon, he would enter the “hypnagogic state,” a stage between wakefulness and sleep where many people claim to have visual and auditory hallucinations." https://cityftmyers.com/1871/Standing-Thomas-Edison#:~:text=... . This technique should work if you can fall asleep without consciously thinking about what is in…

> Recently in a nap dream I come to a part that seemed to beg my belief even while dreaming. And I was somehow able to arise out of my dream state with conscious effort.

I've had a similar experience, where discrepancies in dream raised consciousness and morphed into lucid dreaming. In time I've become better at working out dreams from reality, and decided reversed to trigger it voluntarily. To bad with age I almost stopped dreaming, it was great.

It might be extremely personal, but my best trigger was imagining walking down an infinite stair above a cloudy sky right before sleeping - imagination transitioning into dreaming as it went. I would regularly misstep and fall - either the body would twitch waking me up, or I'd be falling in the empty below, the impossibility of the situation awakening consciousness in the dream. Had to be timed right tho - too early and would have just been just me imagining things. The feeling of lucid dreaming is distinct enough to tell which is which tho, so I could just attempt it over and over until it worked or I'd miss the window and just feel asleep.

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#64

I thought Edison's "visionary" status had been discarded and his primary skillsets were deceit and self publicity? How much meditation time does it take to strong arm other people's work over and over again? It's a talent, but visionary doesn't seem apt.

I have always felt that Steve Jobs and Thomas Edison are two sides of one coin... it seems that both of their successes are related to the mix of a driving vision, controversial management style and relentless push for innovation. Different eras, similar results...

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#65
post #62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To those suffering it, it is normal reality, but to those observing it, it is chaos.

I also have some personal experience with psychosis, although I don't want to disclose it on HN. How do you personally know when you're done experiencing it and have "returned to normal"?

It depends on how deep it is. At a certain depth the only thing that can alert you (if you have it as a tenancy like I do) is the reactions of other people. THC can amplify the effect but CBD can dampen it. I don't know why I use either. I'm just imperfect that way. I'm bad to the bone.

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#67
post #62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To those suffering it, it is normal reality, but to those observing it, it is chaos.

I also have some personal experience with psychosis, although I don't want to disclose it on HN. How do you personally know when you're done experiencing it and have "returned to normal"?

The right level sleep is important. I have a lot of difficulty with this.

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#68
post #60

Both Dali and Edison did not have families and children to rise. They were multimillionaries also. If you are also childless and multimillionaire, you can experiment with what essentially a sleep deprivation, having hallutinations that are useful in a work of... genius? Also, in case of Edison, he used an army of assistants to comb through his ideas and patents avaiable at the time to find what is useful. Again, a pr…

A comment from a passerby. You say it like this is something you don’t have agency over (at least early on). It’s like saying that “yeah, you cannot be a good painter if you are solving math problems all the time”. Same with childless multimillionaires - it’s not like you are born into being one.

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#69
post #4

This is absolutely fascinating. I'm really interested to learn why this seems to work so reliably well. What's going on on a chemical/electrical level in the brain during N1 sleep that gives it this unique ability, and why does it go away if you go too deep and enter N2 sleep? Also, I'm incredibly eager to try this out now. First I've heard of it and it seems too good to be true.

I was also amazed when I could solve logic puzzles (it was a logic game) after having looked at it[1] for a couple of seconds. I cannot/could not explain how I solved it, I could not tell you in advance that I have to move left, then right to connect this and that and so forth, but after having looked at it for a couple of seconds, I pressed the keys "intuitively" and solved it! I did not believe that it really worke…

I've had a similar experience but, but my takeaway was: what does it mean to solve something? Consciously? You still skip so many steps; often, I think we just "think through" the state of the puzzle in order to load its configuration; the solution pops into our head, which then think through again - and we call it conscious thought. It's like an idea popping into your head: You instantly take credit for it, but frankly, did you come up with the idea? Didn't you just start feeling like you got something and you started talking, and the words kept making sense? lmao

Re: Sleep technique used by Salvador Dalí works

#70
post #14

I think I once got into this hypnagogic state by accident. I was having a nap and my dogs woke me up because it was time for their walk. I felt sleepy while walking the dogs but also had a clarity regarding anything I examined in my mind. It's as if my regular state of mind was like walking in a forest with limited visibility, and now I could see the territory from a bird's perspective. This lasted for about 15 mins…

I experienced such states on several occasions, usually randomly once every two or three years. I resolved to explore it if it happened again, and sure enough I was ready when it did.

I soon discovered you don't have to wait years; it can happen a few times a week.

Simple technique: - wait until you've woken up after a dream. (so technically hypnopompic, not hypnagogic, but more powerful imho) - Any dream will do, but be careful not to drift back into normal consciousness (so don't think of work, taxes, todo's, etc) - instead, imagine something fanciful. Like swinging at a baseball in dodger stadium in slow-motion, or, my favorite, imagining you have the worlds smallest record player between your fingers & playing a song you like (funk music is good for this) - stay with the humorous feeling, let it grow awhile - after a minute or two, you should find the dream state has stabilized - once it's stable, and only then, call up a problem or life situation you'd like insight into, or just explore the landscape (what's behind that circus tent?) - try not to get too intellectual or willful, it can dispel the state

NB: no drugs required. But caffeine in the evening can increase the odds of waking after dreaming.

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