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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#591

Post by rhino369 »

pydry wrote: post #329
jollybean wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking" That's a bit absurd given showed the total opposite: Gigabytes of diplomatic cables of highly sensitive data revealed a US Diplomatic Corps trying to do a decent job in a world rife with ugly corruption. The 'Arab Street' saw the information and they saw the US trying to assuage and nudge brutally corrupt leaders. The cables didn't uni…

>The cables didn't unite Arabs against the US - they exposed the ruthless corruption of their own governments I'm sensing that you believe that this is something you think that should have been concealed from them for their own good. >It's shocking that someone could read about Arab governments doing 'very bad things', the US government trying to stop them, and then come away with the notion that the US is the bad ac…

To play devil's advocate, there is at least some value in US diplomatic cables being secret. It allows our diplomats to pass around honest impression and sensitive information back to our government.

If all diplomatic channels were transparent, diplomats would treat it like a twitter account. If the US's Saudi Ambassador thought the Saudi leadership was unstable, they'd never write that in a cable if it was going to be released publicly.

And nobody would tell our diplomats uncomfortable truths.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#593

Post by jjulius »

choward wrote: post #562
regnull wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> none of the “crimes” happened on US soil He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. “ they charged him with conspiring to commit unlawful computer intrusion based on his alleged agreement to try to help Ms. Manning break an encoded portion of passcode that would have permitted her to log on to a classified military network under another user’s identity…

There is no evidence he helped her. Their main witness was a pedophile who lied to try get his own charges lessened. There is no case against Assange. The allegations are bogus.

> Their main witness was a pedophile who lied to try get his own charges lessened.

As far as I understand it, that witness admitted to lying about a lot, but I can't find where he ever was the witness to Assange helping Manning, or that he even claimed it happened. The original article[1] that exposed Thordarson's lies doesn't even mention that; it's only tangentially tied to the claim that Assange was Manning's accomplice because they used it to say, "See? He helped Thordarson, too". As far as I know, we don't yet know what other proof the government may have that Assange helped Manning along the way simply because there hasn't been a trial yet. Until that happens, it's impossible to say that there is no proof.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[1]https://stundin.is/grein/13627/

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#594

Post by choward »

anon012012 wrote: post #516

Having hidden agendas and hidden organizations is an act of War and government officials should be dealt with the harshest sanction for the crime of Treason to Humanity. I'm not even trolling, and I'm not even started.

What are you talking about? The US government? I agree that many in the government have hidden agendas and are traitors.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#595

Post by smolder »

cormacrelf wrote: post #177
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, if you don’t know who they are then how do you know they are “breathing, ideologically bent individuals” right before asking who they are? What if instead they are ego fragile and angry at Assange for daring to challenge the unchallengeable order? Or what if this is a case of banal evil? I’m not suggesting any of qualities exist in the persons who are implicated in the question of “who.” I do want to use this o…

This is what the HN thread looked like last time. People were claiming the judge was corrupt, colluding with the Americans, and/or was herself deciding issues in a pre-determined way when she didn’t accept the “political crimes” argument from his defence after her very thorough analysis of the treaty. It was pretty awful, and that was a judgment that denied his extradition! The truth is the issues in this case are si…

The legal aspects may be hard to understand, and we may not precisely understand the underlying motivations of either Assange or the government, but the general dynamic is not hard to figure out. Assange spat in the face of the giant, and the law is now only an obstacle for the punishment they want to dole out. My country is throwing its weight around like a petulant bully.

I'm starting to accept that lies grease the gears of society somewhat, that we can't always live up to the ideals we propagandize about. Sometimes tricking people is the best way to get them to behave.

But I also think that the leaks themselves and the response to them show how far out of bounds our government is with its lies and liberties. The undermining of our diplomatic position began with our diplomacy, our military action. You can argue Assange released "too much", but that doesn't forgive the reaction.

I expect a government with some integrity would admit mistakes and do some house cleaning to regain the lost trust. Maybe I'm not following well enough, and there was some of that? But it seems to me like they went straight to trying to punish Assange with dirty tricks; no real admissions of guilt or plans to improve. That speaks to a pervasive lack of integrity, and so has undermined confidence in the fairness of these legal proceedings.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#596

Post by zepto »

kdomanski wrote: post #587
dragonwriter wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might be the case right now but it came out earlier this year that the CIA was entertaining this idea in 2017. CIA, DoD, and lots of agencies “entertain” lots of ideas, and even develop plans, for lots of things that never get close to being policy.

Planning to commit a murder or a terrorist attack is a felony that will put an individual in prison for a long time.

Yes, but whether it is a murder or not is decided in court, not by you. Not all assassination are murder.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#597

Post by cwkoss »

_jal wrote: post #547
lenkite wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces. All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.

> They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails The issue there was precisely how he was emphatically not acting as a journalist. Journalists do not coordinate news releases with their preferred candidates. Political operatives do.

I think this is a naive and unrealistic perspective. Journalists coordinate with their preferred candidates all the time to gain better access. They shouldn't but they do.

(And, whether wikileaks meaningfully coordinated with trump campaign is debatable)

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#598

Post by dotnet00 »

Mezzie wrote: post #505
joshuamorton wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides who is lying? If the media and government are in bed today, won't that get worse when the government can arbitrate what truth is harming the not mainstream media?

At this point I think the best chance of implementation would be something like the Board of Labor, OSHA, or some open source bug reporting where specific lies can be be reported and fined/punished for. Maybe random audits like the IRS. I'd like the determination to lie with the public, but the issue is coupling determination from enforcement given how intertwined information control is with power. Right now? It woul…

A ministry that decides on truths? I wonder what that could be called!

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#599

Post by ozim »

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

That is why Edward Snowden beeing still free is important.

Don't get me wrong. If there will be a good deal from US - Russia is going to hand him over in a blink of an eye.

But he is an example that you still can play it out between big boys and not all is lost.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#600

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

isk517 wrote: post #578
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if "laws" cannot protect one man, why bother with the sham that is "democracy"? its not just in the US but rest of the countries as well. when "pride" of a democracy is greater than the life of a human, it is no better than china or north korea. there at least you have the expectation of their intentions, that you are on your own. "democracies" are supposed to protect the little guy regardless of the adversary. as th…

I would argue we bother with the sham because it is superior to the alternatives, the issue is human nature prevents us from ever truly reaching an ideal society. As long as there is someone standing is 3ft of shit for us to laugh we are comfortable and happy despite the fact that we ourselves are standing in 2ft of shit.

sure, we are willing to sacrifice assange for the greater good
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