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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#531

Post by josteink »

pelasaco wrote: post #486
brandelune wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange does not want to be tortured and murdered and thus does not want this. Are you insane ?

From the article: "The US had offered four assurances, including that Mr Assange would not be subject to solitary confinement pre or post-trial or detained at the ADX Florence Supermax jail - a maximum security prison in Colorado - if extradited. Lawyers for the US said he would be allowed to transfer to Australia to serve any prison sentence he may be given closer to home. And they argued Mr Assange's mental illness…

I’m sure Epstein was offered assurances as well.

US assurances aren’t worth the toilet-paper they’re written on.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#532

Post by jollybean »

mafuy wrote: post #406
jollybean wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. Assange is alleged to have cooperated with a member of the US forces to release gigabytes of diplomatic cables etc. - which is possibly a crime. In all but rare cases, you absolutely do not have the right to break into systems of national security and release arbitrary information under the guise of 'journalism'. His extradition is perfectly rational, legal and judicially legitimate. The Abu Garib…

He did significant help in showing a major war crime that was covered up. That is, without doubt, more important. As a journalist, you sometimes have to jump a fence - that is generally, and legally, accepted. Else writing 'do not view or publish' on your crime diary would be sufficient to conceal it.

The video that showed the deaths of journalists in Iraq was not an example of a war crime.

Just because it's tragic, and maybe one might not like 'the war' etc. doesn't make it a 'war crime'.

It was a glimpse into the horrors of war for many and that can be enlightening, but doesn't necessarily justify whistelblowing, even if the information does materially shape our views.

The issue with Assange boils down a bit to whether or not Assange 'published' or 'stole' the information along with Manning, there's a material difference there.

I'll gather he was on the side of publishing, not stealing, but I have not seen the evidence.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#534

Post by throwamon »

criley2 wrote: post #36

The histrionics, conspiracy theories and outright lies in this thread are outrageous. The US justice system is not the same as despotic countries like Russia or China. Reality Winner will be released from prison soon. Chelsea Manning, who leaked the info to him, the actual whistleblower who broke the laws, is a free woman. (Could you imagine if Chelsea tried to transition to a woman in Russia or China or other nation…

Is this the kind of thing you'd call a conspiracy theory?

https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#535

Post by josteink »

zepto wrote: post #348
brandelune wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange does not want to be tortured and murdered and thus does not want this. Are you insane ?

I doubt the US intends to murder him.

> I doubt the US intends to murder him.

And Epstein committed suicide. Right?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#536

Post by zepto »

antihero wrote: post #371
zepto wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the US intends to murder him.

Except the time they were plotting to murder him, of course.

Yes, when he was a fugitive potentially in possession of state secrets.

I’m not saying it’s ok - just that now he’s in custody it’s a little different.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#537

Post by dundarious »

queuebert wrote: post #471
realce wrote: post #246

Fabricate a narrative that allows your country to murder tens of thousands of people == fine and not illegal. Tell soldier how cryptographic maths work == double castration and the CIA tries to assassinate you. Don't forget that the Collateral Murder video showed not only Iraqi citizens but also Reuters journalists being machine-gunned from the sky. No person has ever been criminally charged for these murders.

As an American, I find it very hard to decide what to think about these issues. Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that?

If a country uses military force beyond its borders far more than any other nation (let's ignore actual border/territorial disputes), I don't think it deserves much credit for being, let's say, only 90% as brutal (which I would dispute as well, but it would take really getting into the weeds -- start off with some examples from https://archive.md/20211006055938/https://www.newyorker.com/...).

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#538

Post by SeanLuke »

pydry wrote: post #265
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a non-US citizen, that's what I find most troubling about this. Extradition isn't unique to the United States, though. It's a common feature of most large country's legal systems. This doesn't mean that any country can prosecute foreign people with arbitrary laws at their leisure, though. Most extradition agreements would require that the offense be a crime in both countries, for example, and require a reasonabl…

>This doesn't mean that any country can prosecute foreign people with arbitrary laws at their leisure, though. Most extradition agreements would require that the offense be a crime in both countries, for example. Ok but Anne Sacoolas ran over and killed a kid (definitely a crime here) and she wasn't extradited. While Julian Assange exposed a US war crime and is extradited because US espionage law literally counts tha…

Anne Scoolas had diplomatic immunity, right? That's an entirely different ball of wax. Perhaps Scoolas isn't a good example for your case.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#539

Post by zepto »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #417
zepto wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the US intends to murder him.

They intend, fully, to make an example out of him. Why murder him when he's no threat to them anymore, and they can drag him through more hell for the next decade in order to show what happens when you cross the line?

They committed to letting him serve his prison term in Australia, if convicted.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#540

Post by pydry »

axiolite wrote: post #422
pydry wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For encouraging Americans to break American laws, which I think is the non-legalese summary of the accusation? Were Gandhi/MLK/Rosa Parks wrong when they made a point of breaking unjust laws and encouraging others to follow along? Many liberals at the time thought yes - "the law being the law" and all that. It does sound like you're making the same argument they were?

> Were Gandhi/MLK/Rosa Parks wrong when they made a point of breaking unjust laws and encouraging others to follow along? Your question of right/"wrong" is a matter of morality, not legality. Stealing bread to feed a starving person might be morally good, but legally wrong, and nobody should expect to avoid legal consequences because of it. In the case of civil disobedience, those involved do NOT attempt to flee from…

>In the case of civil disobedience, those involved do NOT attempt to flee from justice. Being arrested and facing the legal system is an integral part.

You think Oskar Schindler was wrong not to hand himself in?

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