Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#511

Post by brightstep » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

mercy_dude wrote: post #283

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

The most infuriating among all of them has been our media - specifically mainstream media. They have played the entire saga down and in many cases many mainstream media pundits actively espoused for Assanges punishment [1]. I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. Mainstream media right now has no other purpose other than being active vehicle of the powerful and b…

You have to remember that the first amendment was written to protect people like the founders - wealthy, bourgeois, powerful men. It was never intended to create a press that challenges state power.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#512

Post by 2Gkashmiri » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #344

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

This is in micro scale, so perhaps this is why the power imbalance is so painfully clear. This is one guy against the whole might of the US. Of course events like this have been happening for centuries, recent decades included. The people in various countries caught up in wars had their lives ruined or lost. At best, this was despite all efforts to safeguard them and a price to pay for some greater good, at worst foo…

if "laws" cannot protect one man, why bother with the sham that is "democracy"? its not just in the US but rest of the countries as well. when "pride" of a democracy is greater than the life of a human, it is no better than china or north korea. there at least you have the expectation of their intentions, that you are on your own. "democracies" are supposed to protect the little guy regardless of the adversary. as the other commenter said, this sets the precedent for the rest of the world. now india can go ahead and do the same to its dissenters because america could do it.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#513

Post by AnthonyMouse » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #392

lenkite wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces. All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.

Yep. 100% this. After 2016, i went from getting "oh you radical crazy commie" looks wearing a wikileaks shirt to immediately "oh you're a republican, let me guess you listen to alex jones and joe rogan?"

> After 2016, i went from getting "oh you radical crazy commie" looks wearing a wikileaks shirt to immediately "oh you're a republican, let me guess you listen to alex jones and joe rogan?"

The flip side of this is that we're apparently focusing on the wrong things.

Assange was prosecuted under Trump, now he's being prosecuted under Biden. Who were we realistically supposed to vote for in order to make this stop? If this is the only front then we lost before there was even a vote.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#514

Post by mongol » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

queuebert wrote: post #471

realce wrote: post #246

Fabricate a narrative that allows your country to murder tens of thousands of people == fine and not illegal. Tell soldier how cryptographic maths work == double castration and the CIA tries to assassinate you. Don't forget that the Collateral Murder video showed not only Iraqi citizens but also Reuters journalists being machine-gunned from the sky. No person has ever been criminally charged for these murders.

As an American, I find it very hard to decide what to think about these issues. Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that?

Yes but credit should not be given for their mistakes.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#515

Post by sneak » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #354

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

"sobering view of how the world really works" for whom this is unexpected, which is to say, the most naive. Laws don't go beyond who enforces them. And this is as expected, they're not an omnipotent/divine construct. The general public view of Assange is not so great and it went down with time. Manning is probably viewed more favourably. States that were too tolerant with those who "skirt the rules" (or just do very…

> "sobering view of how the world really works" for whom this is unexpected, which is to say, the most naive.

I think perhaps you're giving too many people too much credit. I would assume that the vast majority of people in the USA think it's a functioning democracy, subject to the rule of law, with human rights.

None of these things are true, and, yet, these beliefs are very widely held.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#516

Post by anon012012 » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

Having hidden agendas and hidden organizations is an act of War and government officials should be dealt with the harshest sanction for the crime of Treason to Humanity. I'm not even trolling, and I'm not even started.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#517

Post by hnfong » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

seoaeu wrote: post #385

phone8675309 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Can't we just drone this guy?" -- about Julian Assange from the candidate in the 2016 presidential election that got the largest share of the popular vote

Cry me a river. The vendetta clearly went both ways given what Assange was willing to do to sabotage her campaign.

Are you really saying the appropriate response to a "political opponent" trying to stop you from being elected is murder?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#518

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

marmaduke wrote: post #497

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire post is opinion and contains no information, factual or otherwise.

Isn’t a court ruling an opinion and not fact? Is it necessary to oppose one opinion not with another but a fact?

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#519

Post by sneak » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #295

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

This is ridiculous. Assange is alleged to have cooperated with a member of the US forces to release gigabytes of diplomatic cables etc. - which is possibly a crime. In all but rare cases, you absolutely do not have the right to break into systems of national security and release arbitrary information under the guise of 'journalism'. His extradition is perfectly rational, legal and judicially legitimate. The Abu Garib…

> Assange will face a trial like everyone else

It's worth noting that Manning, his alleged co-conspirator in this thing, was declared guilty by Obama, in public, before her trial ever began (when she was, under the law, to be presumed innocent). She was also tortured in jail prior to conclusion of the trial, to such an extent that she attempted suicide twice.

The extradition is only rational, legal, and judicially legitimate if he can be expected to receive a fair trial and not be tortured before/during/after. None of these assumptions hold true in the United States, as we both know.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#520

Post by tsimionescu » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

This is devastating news.

Seeing the injustice of how one of the greatest journalists of our age is being treated literally hurts. And not just by the US power system, but also most of the media, even people who pass as liberal like John Stewart are almost spitting in his face and treating the US repression as justified.