Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 792 posts

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#331

Post by bladegash »

klibertp wrote: post #314
bladegash wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yet given how the events turned out it seems that he was right. He was hiding in the embassy in fear that they would try to send him to the US." If only we could all flee when faced with consequences for breaking laws that we disagree with. "Transparency is a government duty. It is a shame but totally justified that private citizens have to 3nforce it. As for "criminal", sounds like yet another victimless crime. If…

> If only we could all flee Tell that to Snowden. > There are absolutely reasons for state secrecy and Sorry, I have to: that's just, like, your opinion man. Have you ever thought that you might be wrong on this? How about the state stops doing the things they need to keep secret? You may call it naive, but some will call it being just, you know?

Fortunately you and I do not individually make that decision. Society does and it has deemed, through democratically elected leaders and participation in a social contract that there is a case to be made to state secrets.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#332

Post by jollybean »

lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

"none of the “crimes” happened on US soil"

This is essentially false as his ostensible crime relates to participating in the hacking of US systems.

By your inference, Russians hacking into US Hosptials would not be committing a crime on 'US Soil' as though that would make a difference.

Let's have the trial and see the evidence.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#333

Post by vanusa »

RivieraKid wrote: post #309
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

But you're assuming that the UK court made a decision that is against their law. Why is extradition an incorrect decision?

For example - given the ample (and basically) record of U.S. authorities in regard to their treatment of so-called High Value Detainees -- and even of very low-value detainees at is borders, as we have seen in recent years -- the High Court had no reason whatsoever to lend credence to the so-called "assurances" they cited in their ruling:

The High Court said Friday that it had received appropriate assurances from the U.S. to meet the threshold for extradition, including:

Assange will not be subject to “special administrative measures” or be held in a notorious maximum security prison in Florence, Colorado.

Assange, if convicted, will be permitted to serve out his sentence in his native Australia.

Assange will receive appropriate clinical and psychological treatment in custody.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#334

Post by Mvandenbergh »

kingcharles wrote: post #234
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #63

This was inevitable to anyone who read the original ruling. What I said 11 months ago: " actually don't think this is such great news for him. Extradition was specifically blocked on the grounds of a particular regime he might be subjected to (to be fair, probably the only legal grounds on which he had any chance of succeeding). That leaves the US with a way out if they want to proceed with the extradition - guarante…

I don't know how other countries deal with treaties, but the USA tends to ignore all the treaties it has signed unless it has also created a statute in federal or state law to enforce it.

The US is actually quite far in the "monist" side of the spectrum when it comes to ratified treaties but it has such a divided and dysfunctional political culture coupled with an executive which has wide latitude in foreign affairs that many agreements are signed up to by the executive without being ratified by the senate. Monism basically means that properly entered into, international treaties have force as domestic law as well.

The UK is one of the world's most dualist countries. No treaty has any domestic legal standing whatsoever. Until 2010, the government of the day could ratify treaties without recourse to parliament although there has been an observed rule since the early 20th century called the Ponsonby rule that parliament have time to debate and vote on important treaties. The government cannot make domestic statute law without a parliamentary vote therefore dualism emerged.

This means that the UK has to pass a "back to back" law to give legal effect to any treaty it signs where that is required. The US only has to do so when there are elements of the treaty that are plainly not "self executing" i.e. if the US signs a treaty creating a personal right for its own citizens then no further legislation is required but if it signs a treaty agreeing to do something that requires new appropriations, a new agency, or whatever then additional legislation is required.

Quite a long-winded way of saying that Assange never had recourse to certain claims his legal team attempted to make about conflicts between his treatment and the extradition treaty - the extradition treaty does not directly drive UK domestic law on extradition.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#335

Post by dariosalvi78 »

BoxOfRain wrote: post #226
CommanderData wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK govnement has passed extremely draconian laws in the last year. The government is trying to to power grab while covid is still around and people are focused on covid. Laws banning protests, surveillance and others. This isn't a surprise but doesn't make it acceptable.

I really hope the scandal around Downing Street throwing raucous parties while the rest of the country suffered under a strict lockdown is the final straw that breaks the back of Johnson’s government. At the very least he’s being extraordinarily dishonourable by going on TV and lying through his teeth to the country about it while bringing in fresh restrictions to keep his hypocrisy out of the news (and fortunately f…

but the populace has got "sovereignty" now, whatever that means...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#336

Post by unknownus3r »

1cvmask wrote: post #155

Joe Biden was not kidding around when he said America is back. Much better than Trump who was a clowinish buffonish sheep in wolf's clothing obsessed with his twitter account. He was so incompetent he could not start one new war. Meanwhile there is a twitter blackout on following the Ghislaine Maxwell case.

What do you mean by the blackout of the Maxwell case? Do you mean that maxwell trial tracker was banned? That account was from a guy who isn’t at the trial heavily editorializing and frankly bullshitting and speculating about the case. You can see the sort of fabricated nonsense he’s posting on gab if you want. If Twitter is going after true, factual accounts of the trial I would be very interested to know that

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#337

Post by iam-TJ »

mhh__ wrote: post #166

There is a lot of "he will be killed" in this thread. I suppose that's not impossible, but it seems remarkably brazen for almost no real benefit to the government.

"Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks" [0] 26th September 2021

Yahoo News Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks Zach Dorfman, Sean D. Naylor and Michael Isikoff September 26, 2021, 10:00 AM·39 min read In this article:

In 2017, as Julian Assange began his fifth year holed up in Ecuador’s embassy in London, the CIA plotted to kidnap the WikiLeaks founder, spurring heated debate among Trump administration officials over the legality and practicality of such an operation.

Some senior officials inside the CIA and the Trump administration even discussed killing Assange, going so far as to request“sketches”or“options”for how to assassinate him. Discussions over kidnapping or killing Assange occurred at the highest levels”of the Trump administration, said a former senior counterintelligence official. “There seemed to be no boundaries.”

[0] https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#338

Post by unknownus3r »

bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

Rational take

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#339

Post by goodpoint »

lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

> the tax payers paid for their transition

Is this a criticism to tax policies or an underhanded insult to trans people?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#340

Post by bladegash »

pydry wrote: post #197
bladegash wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not what I said, nor is that what my point is/was. To reiterate, "Further, I am of the opinion, being someone who was quite literally in Afghanistan when he leaked the information he did, that any probative value of the information Manning leaked was overshadowed by the indiscriminate way in which it was done." You cannot look at just one small part of what was leaked and ignore the rest. If all that was…

>No, that is not what I said, nor is that what my point is/was. I see no substantial difference. >To reiterate, "Further, I am of the opinion, being someone who was quite literally in Afghanistan when he leaked the information he did, that any probative value of the information Manning leaked was overshadowed by the indiscriminate way in which it was done." I really don't understand what you being in Afghanistan is s…

The comment about being in Afghanistan was intended to convey that assuming information was released putting people in harms way, that I and people I cared about would have been directly impacted.
Post reply on HN