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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#281

Post by nannal »

vbezhenar wrote: post #251
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

There are countries which do not bend before others. Russia, China, Iran to name a few examples. They can protect those fleeing from the West. Just like West can protect people from those countries. World is not unipolar.

Let's ask Litvinenko his opinion?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#282

Post by meepmorp »

Ekaros wrote: post #130
criley2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"What "games" would YOU play to get out of being extradited to a foreign country for crimes of publishing factual information?" The crime he is charged with has nothing to do with publication of anything, it's a charge stemming from his help attempting to crack a password hash of military computer accounts to help gain unauthorized access to military systems. Are foreigners allowed to hack military networks in your…

So will USA extradite let's say Israeli hackers to Iran? If not they are purely hypocritical.

Did those people commit a crime under US law? Does the US have an extradition treaty with Iran?

Since the answer to both of these questions is no, what does it have to do with Assange's situation?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#283

Post by mercy_dude »

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

The most infuriating among all of them has been our media - specifically mainstream media. They have played the entire saga down and in many cases many mainstream media pundits actively espoused for Assanges punishment [1].

I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. Mainstream media right now has no other purpose other than being active vehicle of the powerful and billionaire oligarchs to control the narrative. When 70% of the media empire are owned by billionaires why are we pretending otherwise? How different is that than state sponsored media in North Korea?

[1] https://greenwald.substack.com/p/julian-assange-loses-appeal...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#284

Post by stevespang »

vbezhenar wrote: post #251
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

There are countries which do not bend before others. Russia, China, Iran to name a few examples. They can protect those fleeing from the West. Just like West can protect people from those countries. World is not unipolar.

Surely, look no further than Edward Snowden.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#285

Post by pydry »

mrsuprawsm wrote: post #264
pydry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.

I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on.

In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House preventing nuclear war with Vietnam somewhat inspiring.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-har...

(The connection is tenuous, but it's not completely unreasonable.)

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#286

Post by DoItToMe81 »

mhh__ wrote: post #166

There is a lot of "he will be killed" in this thread. I suppose that's not impossible, but it seems remarkably brazen for almost no real benefit to the government.

The US government has already discussed murdering him, which tends to leave people shocked and suspicious.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#287

Post by gausswho »

vntok wrote: post #261
gausswho wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You agree also with the use of 'hostile'? If not, do you agree the US is in the right to extradite non-US intelligence operators?

Yes I agree. He himself declared numerous times that his intention was to be hostile to the US (and going as far as naming the Clintons explicitely as a target of his campaign).

Can you cite some of those declarations?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#288

Post by harry8 »

Ma8ee wrote: post #272
harry8 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fact he's world famous. We've heard of him. It's a fact he's a journalist. We've all read his journalism or at least know of its existence. [1] It's a claim that "he was an asset for a hostile intelligence service" and one with zero evidence to back it up. Everything Assange has done the New York Times has also done. Every single thing he has been charged with in this case. That's also a fact. [1] https://www.…

Just to nitpick on your logic a little. Your first two statements might be true without the statement that he is a world famous journalist is. Trump is world famous, and he's a golfer. But he's not a world famous golfer, at least not in the usual sense of the word.

Just to nitpick right back at you, if Assange had not published his journalism and its source materials you'd never had heard of him and he would not qualify as famous. So that makes him a world famous journalist.

The idea that Trump is famous for playing golf is risible is your point but it does not apply here. There is nothing else that gained Assange fame other than publishing more scoops than any other journalist ever has. by orders of magnitude. Your nitpick is like trying to claim Tiger Woods is world famous for being the victim of domestic violence who also happens to play golf.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#289

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

pydry wrote: post #265
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a non-US citizen, that's what I find most troubling about this. Extradition isn't unique to the United States, though. It's a common feature of most large country's legal systems. This doesn't mean that any country can prosecute foreign people with arbitrary laws at their leisure, though. Most extradition agreements would require that the offense be a crime in both countries, for example, and require a reasonabl…

>This doesn't mean that any country can prosecute foreign people with arbitrary laws at their leisure, though. Most extradition agreements would require that the offense be a crime in both countries, for example. Ok but Anne Sacoolas ran over and killed a kid (definitely a crime here) and she wasn't extradited. While Julian Assange exposed a US war crime and is extradited because US espionage law literally counts tha…

Plenty of people get extradited from the US to face charges abroad. Sacoolas is more an exception than a rule. Likely the only reason why she would not be extradited is because she's a "diplomat" (aka a spook or the wife of a spook). It kinda sucks that the US protects members of its intelligence services from criminal charges abroad, but the fact that it does that is kinda irrelevant to whether other, unrelated extraditions should go forward.

I have to admit though it would be interesting if the UK played a game of tit for tat here. We will extradite Assange, but only after you send us Sacoolas. But they probably won't because Assange being prosecuted is also in their national interest, whereas Sacoolas facing her charges has little bearing on UK national interests.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#290

Post by throwrqX »

A particular note on the famous "Collateral Murder" video that Wikileaks released. Despite many saying this shows cold blooded murder or something similar even a cursory look at the wikipedia page[1] shows the context was that the military men thought they saw a group with several people having weapons (in this case AK-47s and RPGs, something Assange himself agreed with) and combined with the fact there was a firefight nearby decided these people are terrorists and thus killed them. Not to deter from any legal consequences this seems to be an accident stemming from incorrect identification and the drone operators acted thinking this group were terrorists, not that they just randomly killed these people for fun like many people believe.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstri...

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