The US is murdering international journalists.
Pushing towards suicide. Not the same.
Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
111–120 of 792 posts
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#112The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…
I respect your perspective but wholly disagree with your conclusion. There is not a viable concept such as whether a journalist “enables espionage.” Journalism is necessarily adversarial, not pliant.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> War crimes would generally refer to breaching international treaty and/or conventions Understood. But there are international laws and conventions with no binding effect, and there are those ratified and incorporated into the domestic bodies of law of its members. I’m curious if Assange’s allegations are in respect of the former or the latter.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2441 "18 U.S. Code § 2441 - War crimes" > (a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death. > (b) Circumstances.…
Thank you.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#114Only in the sense of a Solzhenitsyn nightmare. There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they, and how do we hound them like they have hounded him.
Wait, if you don’t know who they are then how do you know they are “breathing, ideologically bent individuals” right before asking who they are?
What if instead they are ego fragile and angry at Assange for daring to challenge the unchallengeable order?
Or what if this is a case of banal evil?
I’m not suggesting any of qualities exist in the persons who are implicated in the question of “who.”
I do want to use this opportunity to point out that if you expect to find some quality in someone else you will find it, if it is truly there or even if it really isn’t. This is motivated reasoning and if not handled appropriately then it can backfire in very serious ways.
I hope this doesn’t come off as insulting. @the_optimist I’m not a saint, I’m not perfect. My only hope, selfishly, is to surface desirable qualities (open to truth vs motivated reasoning) and hope my friends and family will echo the desirable qualities back when I inevitably stray.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#115"But judges ruled the risk of suicide was removed by assurances from the US." Like Epstein? Let this be a point, there is no press freedom in the United States.
> Like Epstein? Exactly. You can't prevent prison suicides. In 2012, when she was home secretary, Theresa May stopped Gary McKinnon's extradition to the USA, on the grounds that he was a high suicide risk, and therefore the extradition violated his human rights. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon ). If only I had similar expectations of our current home secretary.
If we’re talking about murder veiled in suicide then this has a good point but what about an individual’s right to end their own life, to choose how their life should end?
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#116The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…
It might have been partially activist, that still doesn't justify the extradition. The US had no standing, as I believe it's called. They can declare whatever they want "top secret", but that doesn't make a crime for a citizen of another country to publish it. The hacking and conspiracy claims have been added to make it appear as if they have standing, but these are empty. It's another triumph for big budget lawyer c…
I do not think it is a loss for freedom of the press, I think it is an opportunity for the courts to define what a journalist actually is, vs. not. Perhaps the courts will side with Assange and we will find that this is First Amendment protected activity. I personally do not believe it is, but I do think that this situation is a bit unique to modern times and is likely to set precedent one way or the other.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like Epstein? Exactly. You can't prevent prison suicides. In 2012, when she was home secretary, Theresa May stopped Gary McKinnon's extradition to the USA, on the grounds that he was a high suicide risk, and therefore the extradition violated his human rights. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon ). If only I had similar expectations of our current home secretary.
What a crazy world where Theresa May is deemed to be a good home sec. I wonder how much pressure the Lib Dems put on her.
Seeing how much she changed from Home Secretary to Prime Minister, I think the problem is with the office rather than the person.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#118This was inevitable to anyone who read the original ruling. What I said 11 months ago: " actually don't think this is such great news for him. Extradition was specifically blocked on the grounds of a particular regime he might be subjected to (to be fair, probably the only legal grounds on which he had any chance of succeeding). That leaves the US with a way out if they want to proceed with the extradition - guarante…
If only Hillary Clinton were serving her second term, then maybe he'd have a chance with that argument.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well "throwaway21", interesting that every time this topic comes up, brand new accounts come out of the woodwork. I'm not going to accuse you of being a political actor, but I would point out that Wikileaks exists as part of a new realm of state-funded and state-coordinated private intelligence services created to retain plausible deniability. When certain state funded operations come up, the comment sections do alwa…
A whole paragraph dedicated to how anonymous internet commenters could be fake spin delivery vehicles, then the suggestion that Assange has been charged with "a relatively minor criminal offence", completely eliding a bunch of politically-motivated now-dismissed sexual assault charges that were the actual impetus for him to hide in a foreign embassy for years. It'd be one thing if he was hiding from a "5 year max" ch…
Julian Assange getting away with his sexual assault of a woman due to his politics is very reminiscent of how Donald Trump avoids blame for his sexual crimes through the lens of politics. Very smart tool to ensure you can never be guilty of anything and your supporters will deny any wrongdoing as politically motivated. It's no surprise that Assanage and Trumps people communicated and coordinated, as these devious tactics sure look familiar.
Reminds me of Assange's "Seth Rich" gamble, how he supercharged a heinous conspiracy theory on behalf of fake news purely to earn political approval and gain loyalty from folks who, like you, will not do their homework to validate the claims they make.
>It'd be one thing if he was hiding from the charge "assistance in attempting to crack a password hash to gain unauthorized access to military computers", but despite your comment clearly implying that this was the case, it's not.
Julian's sexual assault crimes have nothing to do with the United States or his extradition here, as the original charges were espionage related. It's a red herring for you to bring it up, and I think either evidence of ignorance (you thought the US was extraditing him for his sexual crimes in Sweden ...?) or malfeasance (you know it was espionage, but you brought this up to muddy the waters intentionally).
>I'm not going to accuse you of being a political actor, but what a weird coincidence.
It's always cute when people try to repeat your lines back to you as a weak "gotcha" but completely fail. You're not going to make that accusation because I'm obviously not.
I will accuse you of being a victim of fake news and implicit supporter of sexual violence though.
Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
#120We are creating really shameful times. History will not judge us lightly.
History will be rewritten by the victors.
History gets rewritten constantly. An example: Julius Caesar, hero, martyr or villain? Ask an Italian or a French, probably two different versions. But also ask to an Italian 50 years ago (probably a hero, maybe even a martyr) or today (maybe a war criminal to be judged in the International Court of Justice.)
Of course a correct judgement should apply the mindset of when the facts happened.