How do you fix a stroad? • Hacker News Board

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#281

Post by Vinnl » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:02 AM UTC

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #208

trinovantes wrote: post #75

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

Britain is in the anglosphere. We’re not exactly the Netherlands but we’re a whole heap ahead of the US, and getting (very slowly) better. Same goes for New Zealand.

I guess that's the main thing. I wouldn't particularly expect the US to make huge strides here, but e.g. in London the difference between now and years ago is night and day. The Netherlands didn't get to the present-day infrastructure overnight either. (Like London, my home town also improved a lot in the same period, even if it already was in a rather good place.)

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#282

Post by rocqua » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:03 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #249

yarnton99 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

This stroad seems completely alien to Dutch traffic, though. For a couple of decades now, Dutch traffic design has revolved around designating every street or road as one of three categories, two of which are two different types of Strong Town-style roads, and the third is a classic street, with slow traffic and all. Not all Dutch streets fit this pattern perfectly, but even a century before Netherland came up with t…

Note sure I agree. I can think of a quite a few places that are essentially a stroad. Most feel like they were build between the 60s and the 90s.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#283

Post by thanatos519 » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

trapexit wrote: post #223

trinovantes wrote: post #75

The Not Just Bikes youtube channel was quite the rabbit hole. It has convinced me that I really hate North American car-centric cities. It's a shame there's basically no country in the anglosphere designed for pedestrians like most European countries.

The Netherlands may not be an English-first country, but something like 95% of the Dutch speak English, a higher percentage than in Canada(!). In central Amsterdam, the default language may as well be English. It is also surprisingly easy for Americans to relocate here if they are in a tech career (keyword: highly-skilled migrant) or remote-working/entrepreneurial (keyword: Dutch-American Friendship Treaty). It's eve…

Canadian living in The Netherlands writing to very much agree with all of this. A few comments:

The "efficient government bureaucracy" is only /relatively/ efficient, but yeah, it's actually less of a hassle as an expat than the Canadian system was as a citizen. The best part is that almost everything can be done online through websites that do not suck, but when you interact with a human they are firm but fair and always pleasant (my sunny disposition may contribute to this). There are no parasitic companies like TurboTax (which should not even exist!). Even in the year I bought a house I could complete my taxes by clicking "next" a bunch of times, because all of the numbers were already there.

Speaking of taxes, I feel like I get what I pay for: great (and always improving!) infrastructure, no violence, pervasive poverty, and ever-growing tent cities. The cost of living is higher because the quality of life is higher. When I visited Seattle a couple of years ago I was astounded by the street-level dystopia.

The biggest difficulty in learning the Dutch language is that the Dutch instantly switch to English when they notice you're not a native speaker. :)

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#284

Post by caskstrength » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #175

Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car culture apology bullshit. Why aren't there safe places for bikes and peds on those roads too? Why should cars have all the space to the point where it is practically suicidal to be outside a car?

They’re called sidewalks (for pedestrians). Bike paths are also a thing. We’ve built our society around cars, and it’s enabled a much higher quality of life. Mass transit sucks. I’ve been to pretty much every tier-I city on the planet and the ones that really pushed transit (Hong Kong comes to mind) were by far the worst. In the US roads and interstates were built for cars. We love being able to leave when we want, n…

> Mass transit sucks. I’ve been to pretty much every tier-I city on the planet and the ones that really pushed transit (Hong Kong comes to mind) were by far the worst.

Strange. I've also been to some "tier-I" cities myself and liked the ones that really pushed transit the most (Tokyo comes to mind).

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#285

Post by CanceledAccount » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #280

> Slow traffic; prioritize human movement over auto mobility; This will most probably bring extra gentrification plus damn the businesses that might need that extra road-traffic for recurring clients. Bicycle-ing in a downtown-ish area is mostly done by people like us (yuppies, more or less), the person who has to get tho his/her job at Walmart or at a logistics center at 5-6AM doesn't have time for this, and after h…

Redesigning infrastructure always produces winners and losers. Slowing down traffic will always make someone’s commute longer. Unfortunately, making these decisions is hard but necessary, because the trade offs are worth it.

Gentrification is when a place becomes more desirable to live. It’s caused by people enjoying themselves. Gentrification is wealth creation. If housing prices rise too much, you can build more housing. It’s something to be desired, not avoided.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#286

Post by black_13 » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

sien wrote: post #136

32kfjh23 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does someone saying that things could be built better come off as high level elitism? I’ve stayed in small European towns where they have the cultural amenities of an American city perhaps five to six times its population. Normal people can live good, healthy lives there. Normal people struggling to survive while driving everywhere with few healthy options in sight is a manufactured issue.

When someone says : "Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesthetics." It completely comes over as high level elitism.

Moore Oklahoma

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#287

Post by vanderZwan » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

CanceledAccount wrote: post #285

paganel wrote: post #280

> Slow traffic; prioritize human movement over auto mobility; This will most probably bring extra gentrification plus damn the businesses that might need that extra road-traffic for recurring clients. Bicycle-ing in a downtown-ish area is mostly done by people like us (yuppies, more or less), the person who has to get tho his/her job at Walmart or at a logistics center at 5-6AM doesn't have time for this, and after h…

Redesigning infrastructure always produces winners and losers. Slowing down traffic will always make someone’s commute longer. Unfortunately, making these decisions is hard but necessary, because the trade offs are worth it. Gentrification is when a place becomes more desirable to live. It’s caused by people enjoying themselves. Gentrification is wealth creation. If housing prices rise too much, you can build more ho…

> Gentrification is when a place becomes more desirable to live.

Yes, but the real problem here is that this term is also used to discuss an overlapping but different thing: the poor and otherwise vulnerable parts of society being displaced by raising rent. There should be two words to describe these things to ensure we don't talk past each other.

Anyway, the displacement issue is a problem solved by ensuring affordable housing through various means, not by ensuring the housing stays affordable due the location being a terrible place to live (as you already mentioned, I'm just putting it in the other "gentrification" context).

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#288

Post by prawn » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:29 AM UTC

yarnton99 wrote: post #128

pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

Ojai in California was nice, though quite small at 8k population. As a child comment suggested, mountains as a constraint might help there. The Wikipedia page notes: "Chain stores are prohibited by city ordinance to encourage local small business development and keep the town unique."

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#289

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:33 AM UTC

pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

> Lets stop building ugly shit

It's not just a matter of aesthetics. Stroads are incredibly dangerous.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#290

Post by orwin » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 11:33 AM UTC

yarnton99 wrote: post #128

pcmoney wrote: post #79

Has anyone ever put a picture of a stroad up as art/instagram etc like you see with downtown NYC, Paris, small european villages, shanghai, rural mountain towns, old downtowns in America etc? Of course not. It is the McDonald’s of city planning. Cheap, ugly, bad for you but also shockingly expensive once the medical/infrastructure maintenance bill comes due. Its the overweight, white trash, lower back tattoo of aesth…

Just trying to find some positive examples of American small towns. As a European, if I were to relocate to the US, where would I find strong town communities? I know for example Ithaca, NY, might qualify. Other examples in the South, Midwest, etc? Also stroads are not just an American problem. I have found horrible stroads in places where you would never expect them such as Oxford or Copenhagen.

I really liked Bishop, CA. I only stayed like 2 days there, but it was an interesting town.

I've heard that some Colorado towns have the same style and are lovely to live in. I was supposed to have a 6 weeks stay around Louisiana/Texas last year and Colorado + Midwest was supposed to be this year, but plans changed, so i cannot confirm if this is true.