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Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

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Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#311

Post by 1_player »

cookiengineer wrote: post #277
tptacek wrote: post #258

It's hard to take EFF seriously when they write so hyperbolically. What's clearly also the case is that Chrome extensions are one of the great modern security and privacy challenges --- to the point where multiple tech company security teams have people whose job it is just to screen them. Another detail that EFF doesn't want to share is that ad blockers are some of the worst offenders --- they demand maximal access…

Every time someone mentions this I have to think about the messed up ecosystem of Safari Webextensions. Safari only allows extensions installed via the apple store, but every single adblocker there is a scam. I'm not kidding you, I audited most of them. Chances are it's either a three years outdated list of adblock plus that doesn't catch anything or it's an extension that replaces all google analytics identifiers wi…

You can't list these apps, say they're scam or they don't work with no proof whatsoever except your word, especially when there's counter arguments they actually work.

Explain yourself, or are we supposed to take your word for gospel?

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#312

Post by katbyte »

cookiengineer wrote: post #277
tptacek wrote: post #258

It's hard to take EFF seriously when they write so hyperbolically. What's clearly also the case is that Chrome extensions are one of the great modern security and privacy challenges --- to the point where multiple tech company security teams have people whose job it is just to screen them. Another detail that EFF doesn't want to share is that ad blockers are some of the worst offenders --- they demand maximal access…

Every time someone mentions this I have to think about the messed up ecosystem of Safari Webextensions. Safari only allows extensions installed via the apple store, but every single adblocker there is a scam. I'm not kidding you, I audited most of them. Chances are it's either a three years outdated list of adblock plus that doesn't catch anything or it's an extension that replaces all google analytics identifiers wi…

could you expand on 3,4, and 5? you have listed them with no context as to why and the links are not helpful.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#313

Post by fsflover »

extropy wrote: post #306
qiqitori wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EFF doesn't need to give "the other side" because the other side is mostly obvious to the target audience (which isn't random people, Google itself is a huge part of the target audience). Note that Google doesn't give the other side either. Also, nothing in politics works like that, if you want to get people to join your cause you don't end everything you say with "But keep in mind that $foo".

Still not giving the other side and using "dangerous" and other "think of the children" terms triggers my bullshit and what are you hiding detector. And the only thing vouching for them is their reputation. Speaking of reputation EFF has been doing this shady speak for last few years and my respect for them is quite diminished. I suppose they can still do it because they have practicality a monopoly to "protect priva…

> monopoly to "protect privacy online" with Apple being a distant second player

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29506994

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#314

Post by EMM_386 »

piokoch wrote: post #309
hyperman1 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact one of the best arguments pro to do the change: * Chrome destroys ad blocking * Advanced users now suffer the same internet as everyone else * Advanced users will find a solution, and that solution can't be chrome anymore * This starts an exodus of advanced users . * Advanced users configure the browsers for everybody else, hence everybody else also joins the exodus The end result is less of a monopol…

Looking in the internet I see that "94% of Mozilla revenues came through royalties received by search engines to be featured on its Mozilla Firefox browser" I am afraid that at some point Mozilla can be forced to comply and cripple ad blockers too. Hopefully someone will decide to come up with a totally new browser. I remember times when BitKeeper told Linus that they will somehow try to charge for using their tool t…

> Hopefully someone will decide to come up with a totally new browser.

The enormous complexity of browsers these days makes this almost impossible.

A better solution would be for Mozilla to direct all funding directly to Firefox and try to find other ways to monetize the browser.

Brave is trying one approach but now they are also tied to the underlying Chromium engine. I am not sure what the effort will be like to try to maintain a fork that ignores Manifest v3.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#315

Post by einr »

ddalex wrote: post #296
asddubs wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this kind of thing is why we need firefox, not chromium fork X.

firefox said that they will move to V3 as an effort to maximize browser compatibility

Firefox has said they will implement V3, but "we will diverge from Chrome’s implementation where we think it matters and our values point to a different solution."

Specifically, "we have decided to implement DNR and continue maintaining support for blocking webRequest. Our initial goal for implementing DNR is to provide compatibility with Chrome so developers do not have to support multiple code bases if they do not want to. With both APIs supported in Firefox, developers can choose the approach that works best for them and their users."

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2021/05/27/manifest-v3-updat...

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#316

Post by slightwinder »

foxrider wrote: post #139
eitland wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it Chromium based? It might be great but for now refuse to support anything that further strengthen Googles grip on the market.

I've been using Firefox for as long as I've been on the internet, but I got really tired of using it just because "It's not chromium". Mozilla been doing really stupid and frustrating decisions that made me feel like I'm in an abusive relationship. I've been eyeballing Vivaldi for a long time, and Firefox breaking compact mode finally broke the camel's back for me earlier this year. When I switched to Vivaldi I felt…

> Mozilla took my fundamental addons that separated Firefox from other browsers, they took my RSS reader, they took my cool Torrenting and Email clients that were a part of the browser itself.

It was never the point of Firefox to offer them. Firefox originally started to be the slim alternative to the fat Mozilla suite.

> The TreeStyleTab requires you to go through obscure and hidden config files that often break with updates and the extension itself is not stable and fiddly.

What are you talking about? TST is very stable since years now and except for hidding the original tabbar, there is no need for using any config files. And even this is a stable setting which barely change every some years or so. Obviously, the first months in their transition to the new extension-system TST and Firefox were quite unstable and busy with filling the missing gaps. But that was 4 years ago. There still are some features missing, mostly for comfort, but it has settled down now and is very stable now. And still better than anything other browsers have...

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#317

Post by amelius »

veeti wrote: post #292
tptacek wrote: post #258

It's hard to take EFF seriously when they write so hyperbolically. What's clearly also the case is that Chrome extensions are one of the great modern security and privacy challenges --- to the point where multiple tech company security teams have people whose job it is just to screen them. Another detail that EFF doesn't want to share is that ad blockers are some of the worst offenders --- they demand maximal access…

There is no decision left to make once this change goes through. You can talk about improved security all you want, but the fact remains that uBlock Origin will be permanently crippled. This by far negates any security or privacy gain that Manifest v3 could possibly make. Switch to Firefox.

> Switch to Firefox.

And if you're a webmaster, add some crippling/inconveniencing logic if user agent equals chrome.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#318

Post by bunnythefifth »

zuminator wrote: post #261
Karunamon wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla never seemed to get out of that "the user is an idiot, best ignored" mindset even as their market share falls lower than a vendor-specific mobile browser. It's mind-boggling how just about everyone except the people calling the shots in that org can point out the problem.

How do you mean? I use both browsers and, while I certainly wasn't happy with the changes that accompanied their move to WebExtensions back around version 57, I don't find FF these days to be any worse overall than Chrome. Not trying to be argumentative, just not clear on your meaning.

I rely on Firefox for everything a browser does, and praise its many unique features and conveniences; I don't want to imagine using a garbage flavor of Chromium. But the folks at Mozilla keep hitting my morale. Examples-

1. History of installing and running arbitrary code on clients in the name of "Experiments" without user permission.

2. Full telemetry on by default.

3. Shoving their products like Pocket (added to the address bar by default, shows up as an advertisement on the page that opens after Firefox updates itself), Mozilla VPN (non-removable advertisement on every Private Window you open) in the name of revenue, while their clueless leadership enjoys fat paychecks for whatever value they bring to the organization.

4. Forcing undesirable changes down people's throat (removed the "Compact" density address bar after a redesign, hiding it under about:config).

Feel free to pile on.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#319

Post by einr »

marderfarker2 wrote: post #281

The day Chrome (and it’s derivatives) kill my extensions, is the day I switch to Firefox. I cannot live without my adblocking.

They're boiling the frog. It will get gradually more inconvenient, but still kind of viable, until the day they pull the plug entirely. The day that happens, Firefox is likely no longer a viable option and it is too late. If you care about the open Internet, the entire point of switching is to do it before it's too late. The writing has been on the wall for years now.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#320

Post by unionpivo »

gerash wrote: post #221
ineedasername wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that it will significantly limit privacy and ad blockers is sufficient reason for a high level of criticism, which I took as the main point. I didn't see dissecting the security details as the point they were trying to make. Instead it was to partially undermine the reasons Google said they were doing this. Basically "here's why it's bad for privacy, and here are why Google's stated reasons for the u…

"significantly limit privacy"? You either don't know what this change does or find it "significantly more private" when an extension developer has full read / write access to your web requests

The only extensin I use (and a lot of people i know) is uBlockOrigin.

After manifest v3 it will be worse off.

Ublock origin provides a lot of privacy benefits, so people like me are 100% worse off.

Well I switched to Firefox, only really use chrome for testing nowdays.

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