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Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

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Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#131

While a good message that does have actual merit if you know what's happening already, I don't see how this is a legitimate consideration of MV3. The entire argument regarding security doesn't mention any of the reasons Chrome developers cite its security improvement, instead it brings up that Firefox "does good enough already" and that malicious extensions can still get past the review process. the review process is…

Google has not provided any reason to not include "block request" functionality. And that the super bad faith underlying fact that poison their "reasoning".

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#132
post #82
post #81

I honestly think that Google underestimated how much they are going to piss off users with MV3. There are thousands of extensions that will stop working and be impossible to build. But also there will be a lot of broken experiences as remote loading is forbidden and fixes will need a new release. Can't wait, but that's a very good opportunity for Firefox as Firefox will become more powerful than Chrome

Or more likely, towards Edge, by virtue of requiring almost no effort to deploy the same set of extensions in a very similar browser in the hands of a company who doesn't require destroying privacy as much as google does to keep making money.

Edge seems to be trying very hard to kill all the momentum they've gained

They recently baked in a "feature" to hijack online shopping with some Pay Later garbage:

https://gizmodo.com/microsoft-keeps-making-its-edge-browser-...

Now they're running gross little popups if you browse to the Chrome installer in Edge:

https://gizmodo.com/seriously-what-is-going-on-with-microsof...

> “Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft.”

> “That browser is so 2008! Do you know what’s new? Microsoft Edge.”

> “I hate saving money,” said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#133
post #76

One option is to just move away from browsers entirely. We can take some of the good things. Like maybe a small subset of HTML and web assembly. Add some minimal IO to web assembly.

A website being rendered by opaque, per-site web-assembly code, is not going to be amenable to uBlock, Greasemonkey or any other user-empowering extensions.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#134
post #87
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or more likely, towards Edge, by virtue of requiring almost no effort to deploy the same set of extensions in a very similar browser in the hands of a company who doesn't require destroying privacy as much as google does to keep making money.

IIRC, the Edge team said they would adopt manifest v3, but correct me if I'm wrong.

This page intended for developers of Edge extensions seems to support your statement:

https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/edge-developer/blob/main/mi...

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#135
post #7

I have a couple of popular extensions on the line, and I no longer see a way to stop Google without immediate government intervention. I am confident that they are not acting entirely in good faith, regardless of the much needed and useful parts of Manifest V3. They will get away with anything, be fined again in a couple of years for the growing list of illegalities they commit, and now they'll also harm the browser…

> I have a couple of popular extensions on the line, and I no longer see a way to stop Google without immediate government intervention

As the developer of extensions that are impacted by Google's anti-competitive actions, you can report how this impacts both you, and the market as a whole, to the competition and antitrust divisions of the government. I've posted links to forms and sites that you can use to report to the relevant state-level and federal-level regulators on HN here[1].

If you aren't in the US, the US also has antitrust legislation that applies to US companies operating in foreign countries, as well as a myriad of antitrust treaties and agreements with other nations. It might be worth it to also report it to the government of the country you reside in, as well.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28176193

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#136
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, on the other hand, found the article to be terrible. Consider the following quote: > Manifest V3, or Mv3 for short, is outright harmful to privacy efforts. It will restrict the capabilities of web extensions—especially those that are designed to monitor, modify, and compute alongside the conversation your browser has with the websites you visit. Under the new specifications, extensions like these– like some privac…

> There was controversy over changes to the WebRequest API but that was two years ago and, I believe, changes have been made. Are there still changes that break functionality? What changes were made over the past two years? Have things gotten better or worse? The WebRequest API’s blocking functions, which are central to the functionality of uBlock, are still slated to be removed.

Blocked under the supposed reason of privacy, but extensions can still see every request, and inject whatever javascript they want, exfiltrate your data, etc. Meaning the reason is pretty clearly not privacy.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t https and subsequently DNS over HTTPS effectively negate pi-hole? Honest inexperienced question.

Yes. Next you'll have to MiTM the DNS over HTTPS. Next in the arms race comes certificate-pinning. Controlling your name resolution will probably remain possible on Linux, but I expect most other platforms will make it exceedingly difficult for "normal" users. Embedded devices are already "game over". You don't own them (even if you paid for them). Controlling name resolution on your own network (and MiTM'ing HTTPS)…

> Embedded devices are already "game over". You don't own them (even if you paid for them).

Ugh, seriously. I have a Chromecast, and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't play things on my local network (via DNS names set up in my router's resolver). Turns out Google hard-codes their own DNS servers and doesn't allow you to change them.

The fix was to give the Chromecast a reserved IP address, and then set up some iptables rules on the router to redirect requests from it to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 on port 53 to my router. I'm surprised that Chromecast is using old-school port-53 DNS and not DoH.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd pay for Vivaldi if I had to at this point, it's the only browser that feels "feature-complete" to me

Is it Chromium based? It might be great but for now refuse to support anything that further strengthen Googles grip on the market.

I've been using Firefox for as long as I've been on the internet, but I got really tired of using it just because "It's not chromium". Mozilla been doing really stupid and frustrating decisions that made me feel like I'm in an abusive relationship. I've been eyeballing Vivaldi for a long time, and Firefox breaking compact mode finally broke the camel's back for me earlier this year.

When I switched to Vivaldi I felt like it's 2003 again, and I've just switched from IE to Firefox. Every single thing Mozilla removed from Firefox over the years is here, and most of the stuff I used hacky addons that would often break is here too! In the core browser, as first-class features, without the need to fiddle with userChrome.css or look through obscure flags. It really is a breath of fresh air and it puts into perspective how many excuses I've made for Firefox over the years. It's not worthy of being my browser, simple as.

Mozilla took my fundamental addons that separated Firefox from other browsers, they took my RSS reader, they took my cool Torrenting and Email clients that were a part of the browser itself. The TreeStyleTab requires you to go through obscure and hidden config files that often break with updates and the extension itself is not stable and fiddly. On top of that, I had way more Firefox extensions that aren't even different from Chrome extensions in major ways. In Vivaldi, I just get a nice panel with RSS, Calendar, Translator, Email client, Notes, whatever I want! The adblocker is built-in, the privacy features are built-in, you even get to put your tabs wherever you want. It has theming support that is as good as Firefox Colors, and it has custom search keywords that replace DuckDuckGos bangs for me more often than not. It even has the dark mode among other page filters, a screenshot tool, web page tiling! All the things that would turn my Firefox profile into a slow extension pile that barely works and longs for death.

Mozilla's "goals" of removing key features meant for people who actually would want to use a "google alternative" are laughable, and it's as bad on "privacy" axis as Chrome is because you have to use something like LibreWolf to get the actual privacy from it, very much like you have to use ungoogled-chromium with Chrome. If they think that turning the browser into a Chrome clone with some bumper stickers that say things like "Proud not to use Blink" and "We do say privacy a lot", then it's already dead to me.

Re: Chrome users beware: Manifest v3 is deceitful and threatening

#140
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please Firefox. The first two are just Chrome wrappers.

You realize Firefox only exists because it serves Google's interests right? And while Brave might be based on Chromium, it is distinct; in addition to not crippling nativewebrequest as chrome will, it's native adblocker is compatible with the same lists as ublock origin. So I would go with Brave :)

> You realize Firefox only exists because it serves Google's interests right?

Ironically, though, the larger Firefox's market share, the more Google will pay to be the default search engine in Firefox. Yes, it's perverse and a little gross that we depend on Google to such a large degree to keep Mozilla and Firefox funded, but having more users increases Mozilla's leverage over Google.

Anyway, your point isn't really relevant. Unless you believe Google is dictating nefarious things to Mozilla and has subverted Firefox (difficult since Firefox is open source, but not impossible), you should still be using Firefox. If you care about not continuing to give a giant, monopolistic advertising company control over the web, anyway.

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