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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

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Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#281

Post by baby »

pengaru wrote: post #280
baby wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends where you are in CA, I specifically moved to a place where I would know people around me don't own guns (SF). I have a hard time seeing myself live anywhere where people are allowed to carry or buy guns liberally.

A surprising number of people I've known who lived in SF proper owned handguns, fully aware of the legal ramifications. They were mostly well-off tech people, and didn't care about the legal risk any more than they obeyed speed limits. As always, there's laws, and then there's enforcement of those laws. You're completely delusional if you believe nobody in SF has guns at home because the law says so. Ask yourself how…

I’m talking mostly about culture. Most people seem to be anti gun here. Compare that with texas or arizona.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#282

Post by gcheong »

whimsicalism wrote: post #256
baby wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends where you are in CA, I specifically moved to a place where I would know people around me don't own guns (SF). I have a hard time seeing myself live anywhere where people are allowed to carry or buy guns liberally.

> I have a hard time seeing myself live anywhere where people are allowed to carry or buy guns liberally. you're not safe from these people in SF unfortunately due to new jurisprudence around 2A post-heller.

I’ve lived here (SF)for almost 20yrs and I have yet to see anyone open carry here unless they’re trying to make some political statement. Sure it could be that I just don’t see all the people that are carrying concealed but I do think there is much less of a gun carry culture here. As for ownership I know of one neighbor that has guns. I’m sure there are probably more but I imagine they’re kept mainly for recreational not defensive purposes much like how people kept guns in the small town I grew up in in Oregon before the whole “patriotic” gun toter culture became a thing.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#283

Post by pengaru »

baby wrote: post #281
pengaru wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprising number of people I've known who lived in SF proper owned handguns, fully aware of the legal ramifications. They were mostly well-off tech people, and didn't care about the legal risk any more than they obeyed speed limits. As always, there's laws, and then there's enforcement of those laws. You're completely delusional if you believe nobody in SF has guns at home because the law says so. Ask yourself how…

I’m talking mostly about culture. Most people seem to be anti gun here. Compare that with texas or arizona.

Meh, there's a whole lot of virtue signaling going on in a place like SF. What people say vs. what they do privately rarely align in my experience. It's even worse in LA IMO.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#284

Post by whimsicalism »

gcheong wrote: post #282
whimsicalism wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a hard time seeing myself live anywhere where people are allowed to carry or buy guns liberally. you're not safe from these people in SF unfortunately due to new jurisprudence around 2A post-heller.

I’ve lived here (SF)for almost 20yrs and I have yet to see anyone open carry here unless they’re trying to make some political statement. Sure it could be that I just don’t see all the people that are carrying concealed but I do think there is much less of a gun carry culture here. As for ownership I know of one neighbor that has guns. I’m sure there are probably more but I imagine they’re kept mainly for recreationa…

Open carry is illegal in Cali

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#285

Post by giantg2 »

cmh89 wrote: post #275
giantg2 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not necessarily wrong, but if the conditions of any job are such that people are no longer interested in doing it, it becomes harder to attract, replace, and retain people. Reluctance of police to get involved or respond to incidents, law enforcement discretion, is not new and has a long history, including abuses and refusal of service. The real question is how can we attract and retain officers that want to d…

> The real question is how can we attract and retain officers that want to do the job? Maybe the job just doesn't make sense in modern America? If police as a concept didn't exist already, no one would create it. If you broke it down into its parts, you find plenty of people who would sign up to handle mental health crisis and plenty of people to sign up to handle quality of life problems. You'd have a third group th…

"If police as a concept didn't exist already, no one would create it."

Is there any evidence of that? Seems there are quite a few who support them as-is and many more who want to see minor reforms.

What do you mean by quality of life problems? How do we plan to staff in that model given police response time already averages 5 minutes (would it then be 15, or would we have 3x the cost to fill 3x the positions)?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#286

Post by MisterBastahrd »

alphabettsy wrote: post #257
Fervicus wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to OPs point, Proposition 47 in California reclassified certain thefts under $950 to a misdemeanor instead of a felony. There is evidence that this has resulted in increases in such crimes.

I don’t believe this argument. The dollar amount was $400 previously. Most shoplifting was already under $400 and I’m being asked to believe, from unreliable sources, that changing it to $950 alone changed things? Misdemeanors still carry punishment and possible jail time. What’s missing?

People with a burning desire to believe that anything that isn't overly punitive is a sign of weakness and moral decay. The sociopaths aren't the ones looking at ridiculous punishments for minor offenses and trying to get them reduced. They're the ones who are held back from committing obvious crimes by criminal penalties, instead of just not being an asshole.

A felony for $950 in stolen goods? You're not gonna get that conviction without a court, which means that everyone involved in that chain, from the judge, to the lawyers, to the compensation of the jury, to the bailiff, to the entire police apparatus involved in apprehending and charging them, and so on, is gonna need to be compensated for handling the issue. And that's before any time is served.

If you aren't going to try to root out the true cause of why people are stealing, you might as well just throw a ton of money in a giant pit and have a cookout.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#287

Post by giantg2 »

kragen wrote: post #265
giantg2 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding from the article is that the person was on foot, not in a vehicle. There is risk in any action you take. If they're spraying more houses, nor acting could mean they kill some of your neighbors. There are a lot of variables that were missing just discussing this online.

The article didn't say anything about whether the person was on foot or in a vehicle. I assumed they were in a vehicle because that's the way people would spray bullets into random houses in the neighborhoods I grew up in, precisely because it's enormously less risky, for precisely the reasons described above.

It could just be a poorly written article, but I was going off of this.

"Apparently, in the Bay Area right now, you can walk up a residential street firing your gun into houses, and you still won’t be able to compete for attention with all of the other sensational crimes."

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#288

Post by gcheong »

pengaru wrote: post #283
baby wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m talking mostly about culture. Most people seem to be anti gun here. Compare that with texas or arizona.

Meh, there's a whole lot of virtue signaling going on in a place like SF. What people say vs. what they do privately rarely align in my experience. It's even worse in LA IMO.

Virtue signaling about what though? The people I know that are pro-gun here aren't shy about it but they're not whining about their 2nd Amendment rights all the time either.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#289

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Waterluvian wrote: post #68
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I wouldn’t put it past upset American cops to simply not do their job properly as a form of protest.

How would you differentiate the protest from the way they're currently doing their jobs?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#290

Post by gcheong »

whimsicalism wrote: post #284
gcheong wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve lived here (SF)for almost 20yrs and I have yet to see anyone open carry here unless they’re trying to make some political statement. Sure it could be that I just don’t see all the people that are carrying concealed but I do think there is much less of a gun carry culture here. As for ownership I know of one neighbor that has guns. I’m sure there are probably more but I imagine they’re kept mainly for recreationa…

Open carry is illegal in Cali

That would makes sense then, but even in Oregon where it is legal it's not common from my experience in most places.
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