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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

181–190 of 365 posts

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#181
post #62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would have been lots of great claims: "Train police", "Restructure Police", "Rebuild Police"... but what's a single good argument do Defund Police other than going back to anarchy? I believe it's a reaction to police forces now having military gear when it should be totally unnecessary. In many places police officers don't even need guns. Maybe spending less money in militaria and more in training would be a…

Oftentimes they are given this military gear for pretty much free. When is the last time you've even seen SWAT deployed that made you think "I wish they didn't deploy SWAT?"

>When is the last time you've even seen SWAT deployed that made you think "I wish they didn't deploy SWAT?"

Literally 100% of the times I hear about them using SWAT in the news I think this.

If someone is truly valuable they tail them and conduct a fishing stop and arrest them. SWAT is all for show these days.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

If police actually held their peers accountable, people wouldn't be rioting and this downward spiral would stop.

It doesn't seem like rioters wait patiently to see if someone will be held accountable, before rioting.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

> All that adds up to more crime And yet there is a dearth of evidence for this claim.

As is the claim that police use force unjustly more often against PoC

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#184

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

Allow me to pile on here.

I used to believe as you do. Then I was a little down on my luck and found myself living in a poor, high-crime neighborhood. It was a shocking for me. There were cops everywhere, but they somehow never managed to help a situation.

I called the police multiple times because of violence in the area -- including for a discharged firearm in the apartment upstairs. Sometimes they showed up, sometimes they didn't. And when they did, they invariably contrived to make things worse.

I could have walked to the precinct station in less time than the police typically responded to calls. They were routinely aggressive and bullying to victims. They were dismissive of eye-witness testimony and anyone who volunteered assistance. They made open threats to anybody who questioned them or asserted their rights -- to record an interaction, retrieve their personal effects, or even help calm a neighbor in distress.

The police in that community drove around in custom cars and body armor, armed to the teeth. They hassled hard-working men, women, and even children as they went about their daily business, humiliating them in front of their neighbors for sport. They were -- almost to a man -- officious, patronizing cowards.

I moved to that neighborhood believing that police dedicated their lives to serve and protect their communities. I have several police officers in my family and, prior to my time south of the tracks, had always believed their side of the story. Criminals bad. Cops heroes.

But I left that neighborhood afraid of the cops. Far more afraid than of any of the many criminals in that community. I left with the understanding that most American police are little more than a terrifyingly well-armed gang. They have a fundamentally oppositional stance to the communities they are supposed to serve. And they are almost completely unaccountable for their actions and inaction.

So no, it's not the luxury of the rich to criticize the cops or call for a reallocation of police funds from guns to training and crime prevention. The poor have been doing it for ages. We were just ignoring them.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#185
post #27

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Actual instances of police funding being reduced are so rare that the author reaches for incidents of low police-citizen interaction following controversial police-on-citizen violence as evidence of what a straw-man version of "defund the police" advocates for. "Defund the police" has to be the most poorly conceived political slogan of all time. It sounds more like a pejorative its opponents came up with.

It must have been a calculated decision to name it 'Defund the police' - if it had been called what it really is, which is 're-allocate percentages of funds from the enforcement arm of the police to more pre-emptive interventions and other services while still increasing budgets all around' or even just 'reform the police' it would not have had legs. 'Defund the police' has legs but it's easily used by political opponents. Perhaps a student of political science can chime in on the merits of blunt messaging and if it has a longer term impact.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

This same racist narrative existed back before Rap, at one time it was jazz, it’s their nature or culture. Anything to avoid looking more deeply.

Jazz never glorified crime. Big difference here. You are making a false equivalence.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#187
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op. When the call for reform is "defund" and that seems like the wrong thing to do, then people don't support sensible reform. One would imagine that many if not most police officers support some kinds of sensible reform but probably hesitate to support "defunding" their wages and have their and their colleagues jobs cut, which is what "defund" really sounds like. It's a total us and them mentality which is not t…

My point is that it doesn’t make sense to say “you called for defunding the police, we didn’t defund the police, things got worse, therefore your slogan is bad.”

Because no meaningful reform happened and whatever did happen doesn't, at face value, appear to be positive?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#188
post #27

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Actual instances of police funding being reduced are so rare that the author reaches for incidents of low police-citizen interaction following controversial police-on-citizen violence as evidence of what a straw-man version of "defund the police" advocates for. "Defund the police" has to be the most poorly conceived political slogan of all time. It sounds more like a pejorative its opponents came up with.

They should have gone with "right-size the police".

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#189
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If cops aren't willing to do their jobs, and instead let their feelings get in the way, they are negligent in their service and incompetent... to say the least. It is not the jobs of people being policed to watch their own tone so they avoid offending cops. It is the job of cops to serve and protect , full stop. It is well-known that police departments align closely with the cultural segments that (among other things…

Are you saying cops don’t serve and protect? Do you know any who rushed into active mass shooting scenes, which is clearly a dangerous place to be? If you did, then you might think differently. Have cops used undue force? Yes. Are there some that are on a power trip and need to be fired? Yes. That doesn’t change what the police officers I know are like, nor the risks they are taking with every patrol. I think the mai…

Look at the LA times report on the the Torrence police department. A substantial number of officers were texting klan like message and bragging about racially profiling and lying about it.

Note the articles refer back to earlier texting scandals in places like SF where recently cops were caught on camera just sitting around watching people rob a dispensary.

It’s obvious some cops do not serve and protect, and there are too few good cops holding their own accountable.

We need cops but the current state of the force is untenable and unprofessional

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#190

I combined https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_the_50_large... (proxy for political party), and found that the top 13 cities with the highest crime rate in that combined data set were democratic. 7 out of 9 republican cities were in the half with the lower crime rate. Interestingly, all 3 cities with independent party mayors were in the l…

If you ignore history this seems like it might be something to look into, that’s until you realize that crime has fallen greatly in the last two to three decades and quite a few of these cities, New York and Los Angeles included had Republican mayors at the start of that time period.

NYC crime is way down since Guiliani was mayor.

Los Angeles crime is down since Richard Riordan was mayor.

So maybe the takeaway is that getting rid of Republican mayors reduces crime?

It’s likely not, but that’s the problem with looking at things this way.

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