Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 365 posts

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#91

Post by ben_w »

mitigating wrote: post #37
eckmLJE wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual instances of police funding being reduced are so rare that the author reaches for incidents of low police-citizen interaction following controversial police-on-citizen violence as evidence of what a straw-man version of "defund the police" advocates for. "Defund the police" has to be the most poorly conceived political slogan of all time. It sounds more like a pejorative its opponents came up with.

wouldn't that mean the cause of the increased crime is either criminals who are angry at the police so they commit more crimes or the police not working as hard (or a combination)

Could be, but those aren’t exhaustive possibilities. There might also just be more crime e.g. because of the pandemic rather than anger at the police, or there might be the same actual level of crime but more is getting reported.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#92

Post by scrollbar »

mostertoaster wrote: post #74
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

That may or may not be true and is worth exploring more. Although as another poster points out, this is a vastly different argument than saying as the article does:

>As the surge in violence has become less theoretical to white, middle class residents, Oakland’s mayor has been afforded the political space to push to restore the funds that were cut from the police budget.

Which seems to be to be a misunderstanding of consensus reality

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#93

Post by torstenvl »

scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Well, first off, a 1.3% increase in dollar terms in the face of 6.2% inflation is, in point of actual fact, a budget cut.

In real terms, the Oakland policing budget went from $706mm to $674mm. That is unambiguously a cut in their ability to fund their operations.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#94

Post by zzzbra »

deeg wrote: post #44
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Some added data to back up what you're saying: https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-us-cities-top-annual-homi...

Increases in Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Kentucky would indicate to me a lack of correlation for various partisan policies driving this.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#95

Post by heavyset_go »

mostertoaster wrote: post #74
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

> All that adds up to more crime

And yet there is a dearth of evidence for this claim.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#96

Post by pixelgeek »

r00fus wrote: post #71
asdff wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oftentimes they are given this military gear for pretty much free. When is the last time you've even seen SWAT deployed that made you think "I wish they didn't deploy SWAT?"

TANSTAAFL - who's paying for that gear? How'd it get in the police department's hands "for free"? I don't want to be SWATTED (for script kiddie's Lulz) just because the police have the equipment and need to justify usage of it.

Well the US taxpayer is paying for it. It is military equipment that is transferred to police departments

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/06/24/pros-j24.html

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#97

Post by throwawaygh »

mercy_dude wrote: post #61

Bari doesn’t sound to me a genuine person. I have seen her first podcast with Joe Rogan where she sounded like a layperson with typical 21yr old understanding of sociology-political affair. Then she suddenly became pro free speech and anti establishment media. This is a person who has worked for NYT for gods sake.

Just another entertainer grasping desperately for an audience large enough to justify an upper-middle class income's worth of ad revenue.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#98

Post by [deleted] »

rbanffy wrote: post #52
Trias11 wrote: post #43

To solve violent crime we just need to give citizens ability to protect themselves. Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag. Yet that goes against some politicians narrative.

> Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag. If the criminal expects you to be armed, they'll just shoot first, before you even have the chance to reach your weapons. Remember they have the surprise on their side. This expectation should by itself increase violent crime and turn violent crimes that wouldn't be.

[deleted]

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#100

Post by ybessyehs654 »

scrollbar wrote: post #73
ybessyehs654 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you posted is dated July 1st. The author's citation for the "defunding" bill was approved on June 24 [1], in which funds were redirected from the police to "violence prevention programs." Obviously both articles are talking about different things. [1] https://abc7news.com/oakland-police-funding-city-council-cut...

Thank you for sharing this. If I read this article correctly then the author's point is that simply the passage of a bill to be enacted in the future is the cause of increased crime in the present, which seems like a shaky argument to me. Also I'm noticing that the ABC7News article says >More than $17 million will be diverted from the police to violence prevention and other services not involving police. Another $3.6…

The budgets shouldn't be compared in nominal terms because of inflation (6.2%) and the increased costs of pensions (more police officers retiring). Your article also says that 18% of the budget is now allocated to the police as compared to prior year's 20% (not accounting for the $17 million redirection)
Post reply on HN