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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

71–80 of 365 posts

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#71
post #62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would have been lots of great claims: "Train police", "Restructure Police", "Rebuild Police"... but what's a single good argument do Defund Police other than going back to anarchy? I believe it's a reaction to police forces now having military gear when it should be totally unnecessary. In many places police officers don't even need guns. Maybe spending less money in militaria and more in training would be a…

Oftentimes they are given this military gear for pretty much free. When is the last time you've even seen SWAT deployed that made you think "I wish they didn't deploy SWAT?"

TANSTAAFL - who's paying for that gear? How'd it get in the police department's hands "for free"?

I don't want to be SWATTED (for script kiddie's Lulz) just because the police have the equipment and need to justify usage of it.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#72
> Defund advocates dismiss these arguments—not because they can refute them with evidence, but because they’re blinded by ideology.

I don't know how you are supposed to take a writer seriously when they write things like this.

> Even in the absence of a viable alternative, they demand that existing law enforcement structures be torn down.

And this actually just isn't true. The author has time to read academic papers on policing issues but he doesn't seem to have read any of the material that police abolitionists have written.

He also references Michael Shellenberger frequently, a man who has also written "Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All" and "Break Through: Why We Can't Leave Saving the Planet to Environmentalist". I think Shellenberger had to put aside his 'liberal' credentials a long time ago.

> Today, with few exceptions, there is no more involuntary treatment for serious mental disease or drug addiction. But nor is there a humane alternative. There is only jail or the streets.

Maybe this has something to do with public funding for mental health being slashed almost everywhere and also linked to drug laws. So people who are on the streets and self-medicating because they couldn't get treatment can't be placed in the few available options because of their drug intake.

The entire article is a gloss over the issues without any real look at it.

San Fran is indeed a messed up city. So is Oakland. But I really don't have time for white people complaining about a situation that never affects them. He is complaining about his nanny having to move. Not him. His nanny. How does that compare to the police killing your friends and relatives for no reason?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#73

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

The article you posted is dated July 1st. The author's citation for the "defunding" bill was approved on June 24 [1], in which funds were redirected from the police to "violence prevention programs." Obviously both articles are talking about different things. [1] https://abc7news.com/oakland-police-funding-city-council-cut...

Thank you for sharing this.

If I read this article correctly then the author's point is that simply the passage of a bill to be enacted in the future is the cause of increased crime in the present, which seems like a shaky argument to me.

Also I'm noticing that the ABC7News article says

>More than $17 million will be diverted from the police to violence prevention and other services not involving police. Another $3.6 million will be put into the new MACRO program which will basically be a civilian crisis response program within the Oakland Fire Department addressing those in mental health crises.

This means that even assuming this is a net decrease of $20.6 million to budget, this is still giving back only ~half the net increase from this year's budget. So we should still be up $16 million or so vs. 2020

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#74

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase.

My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department.

His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things because they might have to use force and they’re worried they’ll be charged with a crime f or doing so, (especially if people riot enough and the DA needs to satisfy them).

All that adds up to more crime, even though budgets will probably rise to pay more to try to convince officers to stay.

How do we both protest police brutality when it rears its head, while still treating officers like they’re on the side of the good guys (like most, but not all, are).

I have no answer.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#75
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

>Crime is going up in cities all over the country False. Nearly every crime stat is trending downward.[1] 1. https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/crime...

And your link to supporting data is where?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#76
post #27

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Actual instances of police funding being reduced are so rare that the author reaches for incidents of low police-citizen interaction following controversial police-on-citizen violence as evidence of what a straw-man version of "defund the police" advocates for. "Defund the police" has to be the most poorly conceived political slogan of all time. It sounds more like a pejorative its opponents came up with.

I can understand some criticisms of the slogan, but why are you criticizing the slogan in this case when the police were literally not defunded?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#77
post #52
post #43

To solve violent crime we just need to give citizens ability to protect themselves. Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag. Yet that goes against some politicians narrative.

> Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag. If the criminal expects you to be armed, they'll just shoot first, before you even have the chance to reach your weapons. Remember they have the surprise on their side. This expectation should by itself increase violent crime and turn violent crimes that wouldn't be.

That's what conceal weapons permits are for. Criminals won't know and every attempt to do stupid thing might mean the end of them.

If wanabe robbers expect citizens to be armed and legally able to protect themselves and their loved ones - they will think twice if it worth dying for $100.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#78
post #44

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

My guess is that the root cause is a mix of increasing inequalities (perceived or real), low wages and polarizations in the media.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#79

The police departments can get 100 billion a year and it won't matter when the DA just lets criminals walk after they are arrested. I think that is one of the main factors in the rise of crime and violence. The Waukesha tragedy is a good example of this.

That's the problem here in the Seattle area. First the DA won't charge for many crimes and if they do the judges often don't sentence appropriately
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