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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

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Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#171

Post by meragrin_ »

deeg wrote: post #44
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Any data on some "red" cities experiencing rising crime? The big cities in "red" states tend to be "blue".

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#172

Post by muzani »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #49
codenesium wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much. It's an opinion piece. Probably doesn't belong on HN.

There is a difference between opinion pieces that are at least backed by reality and ones that are mostly hot air

I expected more stats because of the word "meets" in the title. But there are none, only a collection of anecdotes. The blog name is "Common Sense" too, so it's like the author didn't think statistics on police effectiveness matters, it's just common sense that police stop crime.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#173

Post by Fervicus »

confidantlake wrote: post #136
mostertoaster wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

If most officers held the brutal ones accountable then there wouldn't be protests.

I am trying to find the source, but I remember reading about how increased police presence actually decreases police brutality because they keep the others cops in check.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#174

Post by confidantlake »

thegrimmest wrote: post #125
terminatornet wrote: post #67

> I have seen the unraveling over the past year in my own neighborhood. In October, about three blocks from my house, a neighbor was shot and killed in a home invasion. About a mile south in the same month, a 15-year-old girl was shot to death in an act of road rage. And just a few weeks ago, a little more than a half-mile west of me, another teenager was fatally shot. What exactly would police have done in any of th…

> What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening? They would have arrested and imprisoned the perpetrators, who are more than likely to have long criminal histories, after their first offence. People don't often go from zero to armed home invasion. > Progressives in the US want... I'm not sure any of this will work if there's insufficient order as to prevent smash-and-gr…

The US has an incarceration rate nearly 20 times that of Japan.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#175

Post by detaro »

livinginfear wrote: post #102
reanimus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, both me and my mom have been mugged before and the police didn't help. Same with when my car was broken into and someone tried to break my front door lock. People make this argument all the time but I fail to see how the police have helped any time I've experienced any actual crime, not to mention so many others. That's not even getting into the politics of who can call the police and how the police reac…

I don't see how defunding the police provides any kind of solution to the problems you mention. I know there's a strawman argument here, do you think that you'll get better treatment from local gangs/militias/warlords, in a society without police? 'Police Abolitionism' can't be taken seriously as an ideology. I'm not white, and I've been the victim of crime multiple times, unfortunately. I don't think the police are…

If you know it is a strawman argument, why are you making it?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#176

Post by alphabettsy »

throwawaygh wrote: post #139
rafale wrote: post #104

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can. But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Unpo…

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

This same racist narrative existed back before Rap, at one time it was jazz, it’s their nature or culture. Anything to avoid looking more deeply.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#177

Post by robobob5000 »

zzzbra wrote: post #94
deeg wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Some added data to back up what you're saying: https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-us-cities-top-annual-homi... Increases in Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Kentucky would indicate to me a lack of correlation for various partisan policies driving this.

Tucson and Phoenix are very much the blue part of Arizona

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#178

Post by scrollbar »

ybessyehs654 wrote: post #165
scrollbar wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also again, I don't see how inflation should apply to police budgets but not other budgets.

Sorry I don't seem to understand your argument. You're comparing the budgets in nominal terms without accounting for inflation. For example the $630 million this year won't be able to fund as many officers and services like the year prior due to inflation. Budgets are typically increased across the board to account for inflation.

Ah, thank you for clarifying, I understand now.

I still think this amounts to the argument "next year's budget cuts are increasing crime in my neighborhood now" which doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#179

Post by mostertoaster »

confidantlake wrote: post #136
mostertoaster wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

If most officers held the brutal ones accountable then there wouldn't be protests.

Yeah I think this is definitely part of the answer.

Though I think there is some guilt on the other side when they’ve treated police departments as if they’re all the same. When every use of force against even the most vile of criminals, in legitimate life or death situations, is somehow proof of their racist tendencies if the perp was a PoC.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#180

Post by heavyset_go »

rafale wrote: post #104

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can. But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Unpo…

> All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime

If you're homeless, for example, your mere existence is illegal in many places. You can be arrested and charged for illegal camping and dumping, trespassing, loitering, etc. Panhandling can be heavily policed, too.

A wealthy person has no reason to steal food, unless they're the kind of person who gets off on stealing. Someone who hasn't had a meal in 3 days, on the other hand, will become a criminal in order to survive.

It's a meme at this point, but this quote still stands: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread".

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