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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

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Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#161

Post by rafale »

throwawaygh wrote: post #139
rafale wrote: post #104

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can. But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Unpo…

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

That material gets absorbed differently by the different social spheres. Those FAANG kids might listen to it, enjoy it, maybe as a way to rebel, escape or act cool, but it's not part of their culture. They will grow up to be like their FAANG parents and, in turn, also look down on it.

It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents.

The problem is when it's part of the culture to the point where it's internalized.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#162

Post by throwaway0a5e »

Many cities in the formerly industrial parts of the US that have had these police long since defunded by economic circumstance. You don't have rampant crime in those places.

The west coast's crime problem has nothing to do with money and everything to do with executive policy (to not do much prosecuting, to the point where crimes that were formerly opportunistic are now low risk enough to become reliable sources of income for those so inclined) that's slowly being copied in more and more cities hence the overall trend.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#163

Post by llbeansandrice »

harry8 wrote: post #121
tshaddox wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand some criticisms of the slogan, but why are you criticizing the slogan in this case when the police were literally not defunded?

Not op. When the call for reform is "defund" and that seems like the wrong thing to do, then people don't support sensible reform. One would imagine that many if not most police officers support some kinds of sensible reform but probably hesitate to support "defunding" their wages and have their and their colleagues jobs cut, which is what "defund" really sounds like. It's a total us and them mentality which is not t…

> their wages and have their and their colleagues jobs cut

Is this not literally the idea? The issue with "defund the police" slogan is that defunding isn't the end goal. The idea is to reduce the size, scope, militarization, and budget of the police force _and_ use that money to instead fund programs to help citizens and the local economy.

Part of the platform is absolutely to reduce the current scope of the widely militarized police force in the US.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#164

Post by heavyset_go »

asdff wrote: post #62
rbanffy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would have been lots of great claims: "Train police", "Restructure Police", "Rebuild Police"... but what's a single good argument do Defund Police other than going back to anarchy? I believe it's a reaction to police forces now having military gear when it should be totally unnecessary. In many places police officers don't even need guns. Maybe spending less money in militaria and more in training would be a…

Oftentimes they are given this military gear for pretty much free. When is the last time you've even seen SWAT deployed that made you think "I wish they didn't deploy SWAT?"

Police departments, and thus municipalities, have to pay for both the allocation and maintenance of all equipment given from the 1033 Program.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#165

Post by ybessyehs654 »

scrollbar wrote: post #153
ybessyehs654 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, this does not account for inflation (6.2%)

Also again, I don't see how inflation should apply to police budgets but not other budgets.

Sorry I don't seem to understand your argument. You're comparing the budgets in nominal terms without accounting for inflation. For example the $630 million this year won't be able to fund as many officers and services like the year prior due to inflation. Budgets are typically increased across the board to account for inflation.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#166

Post by mostertoaster »

uoaei wrote: post #107
mostertoaster wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

If cops aren't willing to do their jobs, and instead let their feelings get in the way, they are negligent in their service and incompetent... to say the least. It is not the jobs of people being policed to watch their own tone so they avoid offending cops. It is the job of cops to serve and protect , full stop. It is well-known that police departments align closely with the cultural segments that (among other things…

Are you saying cops don’t serve and protect?

Do you know any who rushed into active mass shooting scenes, which is clearly a dangerous place to be? If you did, then you might think differently.

Have cops used undue force? Yes. Are there some that are on a power trip and need to be fired? Yes.

That doesn’t change what the police officers I know are like, nor the risks they are taking with every patrol.

I think the main legitimate beef I’ve seen is how seemingly good cops still stand up for cops that are obviously bad.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#167

Post by alphabettsy »

livinginfear wrote: post #102
reanimus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, both me and my mom have been mugged before and the police didn't help. Same with when my car was broken into and someone tried to break my front door lock. People make this argument all the time but I fail to see how the police have helped any time I've experienced any actual crime, not to mention so many others. That's not even getting into the politics of who can call the police and how the police reac…

I don't see how defunding the police provides any kind of solution to the problems you mention. I know there's a strawman argument here, do you think that you'll get better treatment from local gangs/militias/warlords, in a society without police? 'Police Abolitionism' can't be taken seriously as an ideology. I'm not white, and I've been the victim of crime multiple times, unfortunately. I don't think the police are…

You don’t believe there are people afraid to call the police? You’re not familiar of any stories of people who requested police assistance only to end up a victim?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#168

Post by throwawaygh »

giantg2 wrote: post #12

Walking and spraying multiple houses... I was surprise there was no return fire, then I saw it was CA.

> Walking and spraying multiple houses... I was surprise there was no return fire, then I saw it was CA.

Most folks on my street own a gun.

First of all, I probably wouldn't have time to wait for cover, make it to my safe, pull a gun, take the safety off, make it to a safe position, aim, and fire before the threat left.

But set that aside.

No way in hell me or any of my neighbors would return fire at a moving target in a residential neighborhood. That's 100% how you accidentally kill someone (or get killed yourself).

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#169

Post by oaktrout »

I combined https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_the_50_large... (proxy for political party), and found that the top 13 cities with the highest crime rate in that combined data set were democratic. 7 out of 9 republican cities were in the half with the lower crime rate. Interestingly, all 3 cities with independent party mayors were in the lower crime half.

Of course this is totally unscientific, but I think it is interesting and at the very least there is some association. I also note that larger cities tend to be democratic.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#170

Post by throwaway0a5e »

Waterluvian wrote: post #68
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I wouldn’t put it past upset American cops to simply not do their job properly as a form of protest.

When city police forces go on strike against the city for not giving them raises it often takes the form of solving "crime with a victim" while ignoring all the traffic stuff, intoxication stuff and fishing stuff that rakes in $$ through fines in order to stick it to the city. Other than a few Karens who write angry FB posts about people riding dirtbikes on the street as though they're real motorcycles it's generally a boon for the citizenry.

I think the most recent city to have this kind of strike was Baltimore in the 2015-18ish time range.

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