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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

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Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#141

Post by disabled »

scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

> I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. What did I miss?

You missed the part about people linking together statistics, that are not necessarily related in any meaningful way, into a BS narrative or story. This is commonplace on various Substacks that people write. Also, I especially tend to find this from people with formal economics backgrounds and training.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#142

Post by monocasa »

nostrademons wrote: post #89
rbanffy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would have been lots of great claims: "Train police", "Restructure Police", "Rebuild Police"... but what's a single good argument do Defund Police other than going back to anarchy? I believe it's a reaction to police forces now having military gear when it should be totally unnecessary. In many places police officers don't even need guns. Maybe spending less money in militaria and more in training would be a…

Also to police forces closing ranks around their own misbehaving officers, such that it's not possible to effect change within the system short of tearing down the whole system and replacing it with something else. I think that 2020s protests might've gone very differently if, after the previous 18 complaints against Chauvin for racially-motivated excessive use of force, his department had said "Yes, this is a proble…

Which is ironically the moral of the bad apples aphorism: a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#143

Post by scottcodie »

Their cited research paper on police presence deterring crime does not fully support his claims.

FTA:

> Defund advocates often claim that police don’t actually prevent crimes, that they only bust the perpetrators after the fact. But that’s untrue. Police presence deters crime. Arresting career criminals takes them out of circulation. And, most important, effective policing bolsters a community’s faith in government-administered justice.

From the cited paper:

> Since larger police forces lead to reductions in index crimes, the decline in index crime arrests that we observe suggests that larger police forces reduce serious crime primarily through deterrence rather than by arresting and incapacitating additional offenders.

More from the paper:

> With respect to the prospect for police hiring to “widen the net" of the criminal justice system, we report mixed conclusions. ... we find evidence that larger police forces lead to large and meaningful increases in low-level “quality of life” arrests, in particular for Black civilians, where the per capita arrest increase for liquor violations and drug possession is 2.5-3 times higher for Black civilians.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#145

Post by keewee7 »

Many comments here are pointing out that police haven't been defunded yet. But just threatening to defund a service will lower the quality of that service.

The "Defund the police" movement has completely dominated the Internet and mainstream media so it wouldn't surprise me if many cops are moving to smaller towns or changing fields.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#146

Post by rbanffy »

Trias11 wrote: post #70
le_epic_throw wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many lives is your flatscreen worth?

My life and well being of my family worth more than the worthless lowlives who going around robbing, shooting and hurting people.

My point being that, if they suspect you have weapons, their lives are worth more to them than yours and your family's and they'll not think twice before making that choice before you make yours.

If they enter your house when your family is in, they are prepared for it. You are not.

Remember, it's a violent criminal we are talking about. Were it not a violent criminal, they'd stalk your house and wait for it to be empty. And still it'd be wise for them to expect whoever they find inside to be armed.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#148

Post by ybessyehs654 »

scrollbar wrote: post #134
ybessyehs654 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article he cites is from a June 24 bill that redirected $17 million from that police budget to violence prevention programs [1] [1] https://abc7news.com/oakland-police-funding-city-council-cut...

Reposting my reply to this comment that you reposted ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29504134 ) If I read this article correctly then the author's point is that simply the passage of a bill to be enacted in the future is the cause of increased crime in the present, which seems like a shaky argument to me. Also I'm noticing that the ABC7News article says >More than $17 million will be diverted from the police t…

Again, this does not account for inflation (6.2%)

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#149

Post by JamesBarney »

schwartzworld wrote: post #55
JamesBarney wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any good comparisons on how much a dollar of policing vs a dollar of social programs deter crime?

Is there any evidence that current police funding levels help to deter crime in any significant way whatsoever?

Here's an article quoted on NPR.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w28202?utm_source=npr_newsletter...

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