Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 365 posts

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#51

Post by mattnewton »

Abroszka wrote: post #36

I thought violence is up almost everywhere in the US compared to previous years. It would be interesting to see whether this increase correlates with police funding or not. My bet would be no.

Police funding is also not significantly reduced basically anywhere in the US afaict - in fact, it increased in Oakland, though not by as much as police chiefs had hoped and as a slightly smaller percentage of the overall city budget due to increases elsewhere. https://oaklandside.org/2021/06/25/oakland-2021-2023-budget-...

Separately, the article links to this source[0] when talking about how progressives are "ruining cities", arguing that progressives have successfully pushed for decreases police budgets despite violent crime increases. But the article linked shows increases in police budgets by percentage of the overall budget. There are real instances of yoy "cuts" but they seem to occur with disproportionately larger cuts elsewhere across the budget, which does not support the hypothesis that progressives are defending the police; it shows that when cutting budgets we still prioritize policing. [0] https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/when-the-crime-wave-hits-yo...

Obviously crime is Oakland is too high, what happened to the author shouldn't happen anywhere. These experienced incidents are an important barometer on whether or not what we measure statistically is working to describe reality. We need good metrics prescribe the cure. However, it doesn't follow to me that the issue was caused by lower police budgets looking at how police budgets changed, and I am not convinced that there a progressive voting block to blame yet.. Maybe the morale issue is related, but the budget seems like a red herring.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#52

Post by rbanffy »

Trias11 wrote: post #43

To solve violent crime we just need to give citizens ability to protect themselves. Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag. Yet that goes against some politicians narrative.

> Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag.

If the criminal expects you to be armed, they'll just shoot first, before you even have the chance to reach your weapons. Remember they have the surprise on their side. This expectation should by itself increase violent crime and turn violent crimes that wouldn't be.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#54

Post by throwawaygh »

fatcat500 wrote: post #33

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

I've been a victim of both violent crime and property theft. Police did nothing. It was pulling teeth just to get them to write up reports so that I could file insurance claims.

Police don't prevent crime. Hell, they barely even respond to crime.

And cops in our city have criminally generous pensions -- when you count the pension, lots of these high school grads making 100K+/yr. To say nothing of the absurd capital expenditures. So, I'm super okay with shifting resources from PDs to basically any other program. Value per dollar spent is just super low. Probably lower than literally every other item on the budget sheet.

Doesn't have to be a political thing. Hell, prior to 2019, right-leaning libertarians were the only ones who I could find who agreed with me on this. PDs are just a shit use of tax dollars until we figure out how to bust up the unions and reign in the excessive toy purchases.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#55

Post by schwartzworld »

JamesBarney wrote: post #31
adt2bt wrote: post #23

> They claim that, by taking money from police and putting it toward social programs, they can eliminate the need for heavy-handed policing in the first place. But the social programs are an afterthought. This feels like a strawman. I don't think it's surprising that there's a rise in crime when police are defunded, especially when those social programs aren't enacted. I think most reasonable progressives who support…

Are there any good comparisons on how much a dollar of policing vs a dollar of social programs deter crime?

Is there any evidence that current police funding levels help to deter crime in any significant way whatsoever?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#56

Post by gcheong »

giantg2 wrote: post #12

Walking and spraying multiple houses... I was surprise there was no return fire, then I saw it was CA.

Unless you have your gun on you at all times in your house what are the chances you’re going to move fast enough to return fire on people cruising through a neighborhood randomly shooting at houses?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#58

Post by nsriv »

mattnewton wrote: post #51
Abroszka wrote: post #36

I thought violence is up almost everywhere in the US compared to previous years. It would be interesting to see whether this increase correlates with police funding or not. My bet would be no.

Police funding is also not significantly reduced basically anywhere in the US afaict - in fact, it increased in Oakland, though not by as much as police chiefs had hoped and as a slightly smaller percentage of the overall city budget due to increases elsewhere. https://oaklandside.org/2021/06/25/oakland-2021-2023-budget-... Separately, the article links to this source[0] when talking about how progressives are "ruini…

Exactly this, I've seen so much made of local budgets giving less to PD's in percentage terms, which is disingenuous in the era of increased municipal spending during COVID.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#59

Post by setpatchaddress »

fatcat500 wrote: post #33

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

> Any person who resorts to violence instantly loses all justification

This is an argument for defunding the police.

Police reform is sorely needed. "Defund the police" as a slogan was insane political malpractice.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#60

Post by rbanffy »

fatcat500 wrote: post #33

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

> The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime.

A lot of them felt more than once genuine fear from being victimized by crime committed by the police. Which, of course, is almost never reported as a crime by whoever survives it.

Post reply on HN