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New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

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Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#101

Post by sdwr »

derefr wrote: post #68
bigyikes wrote: post #26

The amount of support for drug prohibition in this thread really surprises me. Why shouldn’t an adult have the freedom to smoke and put themselves at high risk of lung cancer? If it’s “for their own good”, what makes the government the best entity to decide what’s good for one’s self? I hope lives are saved, but dang, it just hurts me a little bit to see personal liberty curbed. There’s no way this will result in an…

Unlike most drugs, people don't tend to consume cigarettes medically or "recreationally" (i.e. for their experiential effects.) Instead, cigarette use is caused initially by 1. a viral meme of "coolness" driven by corporations, followed by 2. addiction. There's no upside for an individual in consuming their first cigarette. The only upside is to the corporations making the cigarettes. (And doubly bad, from a governme…

People smoked before corporations were a thing.

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#102

Post by znowcone »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #28
beardyw wrote: post #9

I fully support this, but sadly there will be kids to whom possession and the smoking of cigarettes will be even more a sign of the utmost coolness. And, as I understand it there will be a time when a 35 year old can buy cigarettes but a 34 year old can't. That's going to be interesting.

Here’s the problem with tobacco. It becomes a public expense when the community has to pay the health bill. The same arguments that people who refuse COVID vaccines should be cut off from the community (jobs, commerce, etc) applies to tobacco. Tobacco costs lives and can inflict damage on those not personally using.

I don't know man, "refusing a vaccine" is not nearly as addictive as tobacco, and isn't advertised anywhere near as much.

It's not a strong argument by the way. I don't own a car yet I still have to "pay" if someone has an accident, I don't do any risky sports but have to "pay" for someone else's skateboarding injuries, I don't eat fast food often but must "pay" for people who went full diabetic on McDonalds or whatever.

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#103

Post by sys_64738 »

This is just silly. If you're an adult (i.e. 18+) then you should be able to smoke if you want. You can't have agist rules that segment the population like this because it simply doesn't work and isn't a government's right to dictate who can/cannot smoke. No, I don't smoke.

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#104

Post by [deleted] »

FinanceAnon wrote: post #83
can16358p wrote: post #52

Preventing people from buying something that affects their own body should be illegal. It's their own body. (Anti smoker here)

What if my taxes are paying for their healthcare? (I don't support completely banning smoking, but just playing devil's advocate here)

[deleted]

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#105

Post by can16358p »

vegarab wrote: post #65
can16358p wrote: post #52

Preventing people from buying something that affects their own body should be illegal. It's their own body. (Anti smoker here)

I agree. But if you are smoking next to me, now I am too.

It should be illegal to affect anyone by the smoke.

My dream system would be: If you are at a public place but there is no one else around (clearly defined by distance), that would be okay. If there's a single person they would have right to sue you and it's your responsibility to ensure you aren't affecting anyone as the smoker. If in doubt, you can smoke home.

My point is, anyone should be able to anything to their own body as long as their actions aren't affecting other people. Anything from smoking/secondhand smoke to harder drugs/driving under influence etc would be judged by the same logic.

I don't smoke and actually hate smoke, but I don't feel that I have any right to prevent anyone from smoking, as long as their smoke doesn't get in contact with me.

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#106

Post by bloak »

LanceH wrote: post #20
beardyw wrote: post #9

I fully support this, but sadly there will be kids to whom possession and the smoking of cigarettes will be even more a sign of the utmost coolness. And, as I understand it there will be a time when a 35 year old can buy cigarettes but a 34 year old can't. That's going to be interesting.

I can't support any legislation that so blatantly discriminates against a whole class of people. People should be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

I think lots of countries have changed their pension rules in a way that treats people born after a certain date differently from people born before a certain date, whether or not they express it in those terms. Is that fundamentally any different from the proposed smoking rule?

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#107

Post by andrewshadura »

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #61
Synaesthesia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a pretty miserable and quite deadly addictive narcotic. No legitimate medical use, and an unusually hugh incidence of cancer. Its certainly a harm on society. I can't really think of much benefit, most smokers are happy to quit. But if you look at the US, they have dramatically decreased smoking with education and gentle discouragement. Maybe also look at the reason why some people get addicted in the first place…

Not a narcotic in any sense of the word.

In many languages the word narcotic is commonly used to mean any substances causing addiction.

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#108

Post by thrwy_918 »

bigyikes wrote: post #26

The amount of support for drug prohibition in this thread really surprises me. Why shouldn’t an adult have the freedom to smoke and put themselves at high risk of lung cancer? If it’s “for their own good”, what makes the government the best entity to decide what’s good for one’s self? I hope lives are saved, but dang, it just hurts me a little bit to see personal liberty curbed. There’s no way this will result in an…

>Why shouldn’t an adult have the freedom to smoke and put themselves at high risk of lung cancer?

More than 2/3 of smokers say they want to quit [1]. What kind of freedom is it to be addicted to a deadly product, to want to stop using it but to be unable to do so?

At a certain point, legally preventing people from becoming addicted in the first place protects freedom more than allowing people to become addicted to something deadly.

  [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/cessation/smoking-cessation-fast-facts/index.html

Re: New Zealand plans to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes – for life

#110

Post by thriftwy »

dgfitz wrote: post #77
r00fus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A drug preference ins't a "class of people". It's just a preference (or an addiction).

How many upper-middle class people do you know who smoke cigarettes?

A lot of them surely snoke hookah or vape, and laws rarely make difference between that and smoking.
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