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Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

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Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#61

Post by peter422 »

dragontamer wrote: post #47
toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will accept some lies for desperately needed progress. And, as you mention, lying works. Where would we be without Tesla succeeding? Definitely not where we are today. Legacy automakers are still making half hearted efforts at electrifying transportation while Tesla increases production 100% YoY. Legacy auto would’ve made no effort without Tesla coming at them hard, versus the little bit of effort they show today.…

> Where would we be without Tesla succeeding? Hydrogen Fuel Cells and probably more widespread PHEVs. Which would have been a superior future than where we are today. 10-million cars with 200lbs of Li-ion batteries each would save more energy from our transportation network than 2-million cars with 1000lbs of Li-ion batteries each. ------ At this point. Elon is incredibly anti-progress. He's switched into fighting ag…

There are more PHEVs than there has ever been. I know because I’m researching them to buy one.

I can’t imagine how the success of Tesla has possibly not had the effect of speeding up legacy manufacturers to create PHEVs.

Tesla led the way to get all this electrical car infrastructure out in the world that everybody else can take advantage of.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#62

Post by JadeNB »

can16358p wrote: post #45
ghaff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need to be perfect but it needs to be a lot better than the "average" driver which includes intoxicated, fatigued, young, old, etc. drivers in all sorts of weather with many older vehicles with fewer safety systems and possible maintenance issues.

While I agree with you, it brings the moral/legal dilemma about who is responsible when FSD kills someone. I'd love to see all cars being on FSD and communicating with each other around, dropping deaths (and even minor accidents) to virtually zero though.

> I'd love to see all cars being on FSD and communicating with each other around, dropping deaths (and even minor accidents) to virtually zero though.

That sounds like a world that'll be great as long as you're in a car, and terrible if you're a pedestrian or cyclist. Kind of like the world we've got now, except with even more victim blaming.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#63

Post by dragontamer »

peter422 wrote: post #61
dragontamer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where would we be without Tesla succeeding? Hydrogen Fuel Cells and probably more widespread PHEVs. Which would have been a superior future than where we are today. 10-million cars with 200lbs of Li-ion batteries each would save more energy from our transportation network than 2-million cars with 1000lbs of Li-ion batteries each. ------ At this point. Elon is incredibly anti-progress. He's switched into fighting ag…

There are more PHEVs than there has ever been. I know because I’m researching them to buy one. I can’t imagine how the success of Tesla has possibly not had the effect of speeding up legacy manufacturers to create PHEVs. Tesla led the way to get all this electrical car infrastructure out in the world that everybody else can take advantage of.

Talk to any Tesla-fan.

"Icky ICE Engine". "Now you have two engines with twice the malfunctions". "I don't like oil changes". Etc. etc. They're incredibly anti-PHEV.

Neither Elon nor his gang of supporters are very good for PHEVs. And on stage, Elon still derides them as a strategy.

--------

Look: Elon / Tesla are right now arguing __against__ government incentives for PHEVs and EVs.

His politics have flipped. He's no longer a supporter of incentives for this industry.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#64

Post by literallyWTF »

ars wrote: post #42
tiffanyh wrote: post #7

This is a known tactic by Elon. He does something that is so incredibly outrageous knowing it will get denied but in doing so, it pushes your mental anchor so far out, that it allows him to "meet in the middle" to get something approved that would not have been approved otherwise if he hadn't anchored you so far out.

There is absolutely nothing outrageous about this. There's nothing wrong with the passenger playing a game. There are plenty of other distractions in the world, if you can't stop yourself from looking at a screen while driving, you shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's not the job of the car to stop you.

I spent like 5 minutes trying to phrase my thoughts into words but I kept coming back to: “are you fucking serious?”

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#65

Post by dragontamer »

literallyWTF wrote: post #60
dragontamer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And he ultimately delivers product, something most Musk-wannabes fail to do. Where's are the solar roof? Battery swaps? And "coast-to-coast full self driving", $35,000 Model 3? Do you think the personal assistant robot will ever be a delivered product? ------- Musk has mastered the ability to make the public forget about his promises. He doesn't deliver on these promises at all. I think we're generally wising up to…

Don’t bother man. No matter what you say people will come up with excuse after excuse after excuse. “I love the car but…”

Each discussion I have, my arguments grow stronger. I see what works and doesn't work, and prepare for the same discussion to happen say... 2 or 3 months from now. Everyone else forgets about the discussion, and I hold onto my strengthened arguments to hit them again.

It takes a few years, but over the long term, my arguments evolve into a stronger form, and people start to listen.

------

I've learned that while the Internet's memory is long, people's individual memories are short. You have plenty of opportunities to improve your arguments over time.

Its no different from what Elon is doing here: leveraging the shortness of the typical person's memory to make his marketing tricks work.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#66

Post by Retric »

throwaway413 wrote: post #40
Retric wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current base price of $39,490 is is 34,997$ in 2017 dollars when it was introduced. So not only where they selling at 35k for a while, in real terms they still are. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

“In real terms” $39,490 today is $39,490 today.

Only today, that isn’t a statement they will still sell you a Model 3 for that nominal price in 4 or 40 years. Rather it’s a statement they will sell you for that price right now.

He said they would sell at 35k and they did, briefly.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#67

Post by can16358p »

JadeNB wrote: post #62
can16358p wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, it brings the moral/legal dilemma about who is responsible when FSD kills someone. I'd love to see all cars being on FSD and communicating with each other around, dropping deaths (and even minor accidents) to virtually zero though.

> I'd love to see all cars being on FSD and communicating with each other around, dropping deaths (and even minor accidents) to virtually zero though. That sounds like a world that'll be great as long as you're in a car, and terrible if you're a pedestrian or cyclist. Kind of like the world we've got now, except with even more victim blaming.

It can make everything safer for everyone, both cars and pedestrians. If all cars redundantly detect everything around them, including approaching other vehicles _and_ pedestrians, and relay that data to other nearby vehicles, why would it be a nightmare for pedestrians?

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#68

Post by FridayoLeary »

Why should that be teslas problem? It's up to the driver to follow the rules of the road. Unless the games themselves encourage dangerous driving, this is nothing more then a potential distraction. It's the manufacters job to make sure their cars don't get in the way of safe driving, it's entirely the drivers responsibility not to distract himself. The regulator must trust the driver to be responsible.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#69

Post by AshamedCaptain »

shmatt wrote: post #26
woeirua wrote: post #12

If the Feds clamp down on this, but not on FSD, then we'll know for sure that we have meme regulators. One of these is marginally worse than having access to a modern smartphone. The other literally drives the car, and has proven repeatedly that it is incapable of performing anywhere near the level required to avoid accidents in the real-world.

> incapable of performing anywhere near the level required to avoid accidents in the real-world. Humans, as well. 38,000 dead and 4,400,000 injured every year in the US due to car accidents. It would be cool to decide on a framework where FSD is tested/approved to be not perfect but better than the average human

> It would be cool to decide on a framework where FSD is tested/approved to be not perfect but better than the average human

Even if this was true, there is still the problem that the failure mode of a ML is even less predictable than that of a average human. I.e. only the most intoxicated humans are likely to drive their cars into white walls, but that may happen any day with computer vision on the most well-maintained car, and you may never know what confused it. Or a traffic sign can be defaced in a way that is obviously detectable for a human (up to the point maintenance does not even consider to clean it), but confuses a car in a deadly way.

I.e. even if humans fail, at least they fail in ways that are relatable to us humans. The ways "FSD" fail are incomprehensible and exasperating.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#70

Post by Retric »

dragontamer wrote: post #32
Retric wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current base price of $39,490 is is 34,997$ in 2017 dollars when it was introduced. So not only where they selling at 35k for a while, in real terms they still are. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview I'm seeing $44990 as the base price right now. There's no $35k Model 3, not in 2021 dollars, not in 2017 dollars. Not in inflation-adjusted dollars. Not available at all in any capacity.

Website only lists a subset of prices and they go back and forth on this over time.

It wasn’t until February 2019 that the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range became available. Less than two months later, Tesla announced that the Standard Range model would no longer be available for order on its website, though buyers could still order it “off-menu,” either in a Tesla store or over the phone.

https://www.carfax.com/blog/cheapest-tesla

Which is kind of messed up IMO, but that’s different from saying it’s never sold.

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