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Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#81

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

dusted wrote: post #39
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this. You sound like a manager I'd never want to work for because you seem to believe this relationship is all about you and I'm some kind of servant. > Almost always asking for "meaningful" jobs. What even is that? A lot of people like to feel like they're contributing positively to the world. If you can't explain how their job does that then maybe your company isn't a positive in the world. > Sense…

I'm a swdev who knows this relationship is all about my company wanting to make a profit off of me, and me wanting to earn money by providing my company with the service that they need in order to do that. Yes, that includes pushing back and resisting stupidity, but it does not consist entirely of me getting my way in every little detail because I'm oh-so uniquely blessed with the magic and rare ability to program a…

> Yes, that includes pushing back and resisting stupidity, but it does not consist entirely of me getting my way in every little detail because I'm oh-so uniquely blessed with the magic and rare ability to program a computer.

Ok, that I can agree with. I think I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't push back on ideas I thought were bad, but at the end of the day it is my manager's responsibility so it is their decision.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#82

Post by pseudalopex »

plutonorm wrote: post #34
dusted wrote: post #2

I think I've read a few posts on this type on HN, and it seems to me like they are similar in a few ways, there might not be anything wrong with that, but I am still somewhat inclined to believe these things are why the job hunt is not going well for them. Almost always asking for "meaningful" jobs. What even is that? I'll challenge the notion and call it "An inability to find meaning in the available work." Feeling…

He sounds like a person high in creativity trying to get along with standard developers who, by and large, are not creative people. Creativity is a one of the big 5 character traits and pretty immutable. If you are highly creative you #need# new experiences, it's not just a preference, it's necessary for your psychological well being. Moving into and working with companies dominated by non creative types, who prefer…

Creativity isn't a Big 5 trait.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#83

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #27

As a hiring manager, the common theme I see in your post is a condescension toward everyone you interview with. You project an unwavering belief that you know how to run other people’s companies and hiring processes better than they do. If this is projected at all during your interview, the companies aren’t going to be eager to hire you. (And to be honest, they’d be right) For example: > Sometimes you get the job and…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#84

Post by gerbilly »

nordicengineer wrote: post #80
gerbilly wrote: post #76

I'm not going to tell you to 'learn your place' like other commenters, or even suggest you change your attitude. Employment implies a power gradient between you and the employer. The thing that sucks is that income is tied to employment for most of us, and it's OK to express the fact that this sucks. How do we go beyond this? This is a problem I've found difficult to resolve myself. For people who are creative, and g…

T H A N K S !

Glad you liked it.

Also just to add one point. When you are an employee you will never get to be more than a sharecropper, growing your crops on someone else's land.

I find it's best to always remain clear about this. Do good work sure, but remember it's never yours, really. Corollary: it's not worth investing too much ego in it.

If you want to work on something you love, then start a side project.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#85

Post by mstaoru »

When I hire engineers, I look for basic familiarity with the stack, and then we talk in broad terms about technology, architecture, some interesting software problems. What I look for in these conversations is the enthusiasm for tech, the "spark", if you would. In my 25+ years software career I've seen people with enthusiasm conquer every possible technical issue, even if they didn't have deep knowledge about it beforehand. Sometimes it takes more time, yes. But you cannot replace the spark. So many engineers these days just view this as a cushy career that pays above the market. FWIW, I mostly hired mid- and senior-level, so maybe in junior-level it makes sense to use the whiteboard. Maybe my approach is similar to the "potential" you talk about. I've also never looked at the "fit", I enjoyed working with all sorts of people, my "authority" denied, there's nothing better than engineers asking business questions and arguing about things that come from above. Unfortunately, this is not how things are done in most companies, so I guess if you want a "career" you better train that "emotional intelligence" thing which may mean completely different things to different people.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#86

Post by dusted »

nordicengineer wrote: post #70
dusted wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thoughtful reply, thank you. I'm not talking about necessarily getting a dream job, or even a good job through your network, especially if you're aiming high, but then rules are different then, you can't both be "perpetually rained-upon unlucky never getting a break unlucky dev" and be "well, I could get _THOSE_ jobs, but I'm so unlucky because I can't land absolute top-tier ones even though I definitely feel like…

Would you say this math is reasonable? - 3 companies/year (3y on average at a company) - 2 teams/company (1.5y on average in a team) - max 10 members/team - add a 5x factor meaning you will BOND!!! (closely enough to dream of working again with you) with 50 other people outside of your team, which is crazy if you ask me, but I'm playing along 3x2x60 = 360 people. That's your entire network in 10 years, pure acquainta…

I guess I kinda say that you shouldn't make the interview process about your needs but about theirs, when you've gotten inside and have proven yourself, it's time to change things, but not before.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#87

Post by forthedayrate »

"Why hire a senior person as a poster, if you're not willing to be challenged and listen to different ideas?"

Lots of people do this. I find the STARS framework a good way of assessing what's expected of me in a senior role: https://hbr.org/2009/01/picking-the-right-transition-strateg...

As senior people, we're usually pretty opinionated. There are different outcomes from sharing those opinions at different times, depending on the context (see the framework above).

If you are looking for a role that values strong opinions early on, then roles that require a start-up or turnaround approach, are the ones that will match this. They are also the roles where the org is most open to change.

Outside of these situations (I'm talking role types, not whether a company is a start-up or not), orgs are resistant to change, and unlikely to hire someone that challenges things before they are even through the door.

From what you've said, it sounds like these are not the roles you're looking for, in which case, the process is working. There are very few start-up or turnaround roles that go to unknown candidates. In my experience, these roles go to folks that have been personally recommended, as the price of failure is so high, and people want a known quantity. (Whether that is what they get is beyond the scope of this comment).

Network, get to know people and get known as someone who can bring these types of changes to an org, and one might come your way.

Of course, if this isn't the type of role you're looking it for, then you are simply rocking the boat way too early.While most places would benefit from some level of change, they will still resist it.

If you challenge things before you've started in a role, a hiring manager will probably speculate that if you are this much trouble before you've even started, you will be even more trouble once hired. And they will reach for the next candidate, because there's always the next candidate.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#88

Post by sn9 »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #52
sascha_sl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a personality test, which will likely be based on the MBTI - complete BS. Just because there's an entire consulting industry behind convincing you that to build the perfect team you must have "complementary personality types", does not mean it's true. Not like the IT industry has the luxury of choice based on such a lot of the time either.

I don't understand the hate towards MB. It does what any theory should do: predict behavior. And it does it pretty well, actually. I'm 52. I learned about it when I was 16, and my mother filled in some questionnaire in a computer program, and it nailed my internal thought processing to a T. Ever since, I've paid passive attention to it, and people seem to fit the archetypes pretty well, though I find the category div…

Because it doesn't have any empirical backing, has poor predictability, poor reliability, poor reproducibility, etc. It's fundamentally not scientific and was made up by a pair of laypeople.

See this article for a summary of the criticisms: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5881947/myers-briggs-personali...

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#89

Post by thiago_fm »

I think you are also requiring a lot of things outside your control go according to what you expect, but not accepting on what they truly are. Almost all things you wrote sounds to me like those pesky #firstworldproblems and yeah, it makes sense that you question some things as you become more senior and have bigger leverage, but it sounds to me as if you want to question everything at the same time, why things aren't just in the best way for you, when you see that you clearly don't have leverage for that, as you can't find a position for you.

You don't have a right to work for certain companies. People hire you to work for them, if they need you. Maybe it isn't about luck, but actually accepting that it is a dreadful process and you need to focus on what is important in order to get that job. If you aren't willing to do those things, no job for you.

It might help if you would take some therapy. I see a lot of emotion on your sentences, like "shitty challenge", "fit fit fit", stupid keywords and so on. It reads mostly as a rant from a frustrated person that can't fit in not because the circumstance doesn't like you, but rather the opposite, you just dislike IT and all the processes involved in recruitment and is not willing to work on getting better and getting through that. Therapy can help you.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#90

Post by gerbilly »

pseudalopex wrote: post #82
plutonorm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He sounds like a person high in creativity trying to get along with standard developers who, by and large, are not creative people. Creativity is a one of the big 5 character traits and pretty immutable. If you are highly creative you #need# new experiences, it's not just a preference, it's necessary for your psychological well being. Moving into and working with companies dominated by non creative types, who prefer…

Creativity isn't a Big 5 trait.

He's probably just thinking of openness to experience."
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