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Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#61

Post by desireco42 »

Hey friend, please take this as a friendly suggestion. What others say seems to be true. But this is a good news. Look it seems that it is more about you than them. Which is fantastic as you can't change them and you can influence you.

What that recruiter wrote you is pretty much what I got from your post. Here is what I would do: pick some of the keywords you heard asked for and research them with genuine interest. Then apply to few jobs you don't even care about and show genuine interest (or give your best shot at this). And just pay attention how they are reacting. You are not going for a job, just a research. It should be fun.

As a colleague, I wish you find your groove and job you will genuinely enjoy.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#62

Post by robin_reala »

JensRantil wrote: post #43
robin_reala wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re the norm in Scandinavia, unfortunately.

Hm, out of six interviews I've had in Sweden only a single one did that kind of test. Norm might be an overstatement.

Maybe it’s centred on bigger companies? But anecdotally with colleagues, and based on my experience, they’re the norm.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#63

Post by rbinv »

defaultname wrote: post #30

Often in situations like this -- where everything seems to be wrong with everyone else -- I remember that old Dysfunction Inc. post that had a tagline something along the lines of "The consistent feature of all of your dysfunctional relationships is you". It's a nod to the fact that often we need to stop and self-reflect instead of constantly enumerating the failures of everyone else. I have limited insight into who…

That's Despair, Inc.: https://despair.com/products/dysfunction

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#64

Post by FpUser »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #52
sascha_sl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a personality test, which will likely be based on the MBTI - complete BS. Just because there's an entire consulting industry behind convincing you that to build the perfect team you must have "complementary personality types", does not mean it's true. Not like the IT industry has the luxury of choice based on such a lot of the time either.

I don't understand the hate towards MB. It does what any theory should do: predict behavior. And it does it pretty well, actually. I'm 52. I learned about it when I was 16, and my mother filled in some questionnaire in a computer program, and it nailed my internal thought processing to a T. Ever since, I've paid passive attention to it, and people seem to fit the archetypes pretty well, though I find the category div…

I've been in development for way too long (still am). Every time I've spoken to a potential client I would only talk about what I do, how I do it and how I can solve client's problem. Also present list of completed projects with the references. Anything beyond I consider as infringement of my private life / BS and flat out refuse to participate.

I might have lost few opportunities because of this but that was my choice.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#65

Post by sascha_sl »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #52
sascha_sl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a personality test, which will likely be based on the MBTI - complete BS. Just because there's an entire consulting industry behind convincing you that to build the perfect team you must have "complementary personality types", does not mean it's true. Not like the IT industry has the luxury of choice based on such a lot of the time either.

I don't understand the hate towards MB. It does what any theory should do: predict behavior. And it does it pretty well, actually. I'm 52. I learned about it when I was 16, and my mother filled in some questionnaire in a computer program, and it nailed my internal thought processing to a T. Ever since, I've paid passive attention to it, and people seem to fit the archetypes pretty well, though I find the category div…

Aside from the link already posted, MBTI testing provides an interesting slight of hand where it abuses nonspecificity. I can read myself into about 3 of the 16 archeotypes pretty easily, and I bet if you read descriptions of adjacent types you can too. The test has to be like that if it aims to categorize humans into just 16 categories anyway. The results, especially on 16personalities, is more about stroking your ego than anything else.

It's a horoscope for smart people, with slightly more utility.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#66

Post by pbalau »

mvc wrote: post #35
dusted wrote: post #2

I think I've read a few posts on this type on HN, and it seems to me like they are similar in a few ways, there might not be anything wrong with that, but I am still somewhat inclined to believe these things are why the job hunt is not going well for them. Almost always asking for "meaningful" jobs. What even is that? I'll challenge the notion and call it "An inability to find meaning in the available work." Feeling…

> Supposedly seniors relying on recruiters and job offers instead of using their network, if they've worked with people in the past, and can't draw on that, I wonder how that is, is it that everybody they worked with are not nice people and don't like them ? Half my network of previous managers has joined facebook/meta :-(

Most of them have other friends, some of whom might be founders and looking to hire.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#67

Post by johanneskanybal »

me_me_me wrote: post #32
robin_reala wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re the norm in Scandinavia, unfortunately.

thats mad, you'd get better idea how 'smart' someone is by having 20min conversation. I guess thats one of those local idiosyncrasies

It's a small market with a few big very successful companies leading the way and then the smaller companies imitating as many of their practices as possible. In Sweden the biggest one of them would be Spotify and Klarna both have had IQ tests as part of standard hiring for some time, not so sure Spotify still do but definitely a few years back and there's a lag before the medium sized companies pick up on the changes.

For the record, hiring is hard, no company seems to have got it right. Think IQ tests probably says more than someone being forced to nervously scribble down bubble sort on blackboard or estimating how many water melons there are in pakistan. None of these obviously says anything compared to working with someone for a week.

edit: People are different, if it was as simple as evaluating a conversation it wouldn't be a very hard problem.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#68

Post by barrenko »

"Red flags" and all - the world is in a total state of disarray right now.

Companies are insular enviroments (reflected in another popular thread today) that operate by dogma and will happily march to their deaths while not achieving real change to how things are done internally.

Unfortunately plenty of companies have to die this way for things to change. We are individuals. We are capable of rapid course correction (usually prompted by severe internal pain and outward meandering and failure).

Best of luck to everyone and hopefully we ride it all out.

I sometimes feel like we are in a game of chess, but somewhere someone forgot to start the clock again.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#69

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

sascha_sl wrote: post #65
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the hate towards MB. It does what any theory should do: predict behavior. And it does it pretty well, actually. I'm 52. I learned about it when I was 16, and my mother filled in some questionnaire in a computer program, and it nailed my internal thought processing to a T. Ever since, I've paid passive attention to it, and people seem to fit the archetypes pretty well, though I find the category div…

Aside from the link already posted, MBTI testing provides an interesting slight of hand where it abuses nonspecificity. I can read myself into about 3 of the 16 archeotypes pretty easily, and I bet if you read descriptions of adjacent types you can too. The test has to be like that if it aims to categorize humans into just 16 categories anyway. The results, especially on 16personalities, is more about stroking your e…

> It's a horoscope for smart people, with slightly more utility.

Well, I guess there's the issue. You think there's very little value in it. I think there's much more than you do, though I agree it's certainly a subjective measure. I say that any of the 3 archetypes that you might "test out" as would give a potential manager some measure of useful context in predicting how you will respond/react to various situations and people, despite criticism of the accuracy of the system.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#70

Post by nordicengineer »

dusted wrote: post #31
arenaninja wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but there's one point of yours I take issue with: > Supposedly seniors relying on recruiters and job offers instead of using their network, if they've worked with people in the past, and can't draw on that, I wonder how that is, is it that everybody they worked with are not nice people and don't like them ? I'm good at my job, senior and even led teams (tech lead) a couple of times at large public companies by…

A thoughtful reply, thank you. I'm not talking about necessarily getting a dream job, or even a good job through your network, especially if you're aiming high, but then rules are different then, you can't both be "perpetually rained-upon unlucky never getting a break unlucky dev" and be "well, I could get _THOSE_ jobs, but I'm so unlucky because I can't land absolute top-tier ones even though I definitely feel like…

Would you say this math is reasonable?

- 3 companies/year (3y on average at a company) - 2 teams/company (1.5y on average in a team) - max 10 members/team - add a 5x factor meaning you will BOND!!! (closely enough to dream of working again with you) with 50 other people outside of your team, which is crazy if you ask me, but I'm playing along

3x2x60 = 360 people. That's your entire network in 10 years, pure acquaintances, not people that you bonded with.

My humble view is that maybe you bond with 2 team members and maybe another 5 people outside of the team. 3x2x7 = 42 people. Which is actually not far from Dunbar's number of 50 friends and 150 meaningful contacts.

42. That's how many people would actually vouch for you within a 10 year period.

My network is not my problem. Everyone is wonderful and supportive. But you know very well that recommending someone isn't everything. You make it sound like if someone recommends you, then you shortcircuit the interview process and the stars align and you should just say thanks for having a job, any job.

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