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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#641

Post by gentleman11 »

tremon wrote: post #319
gentleman11 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of being a good scientific study is having unbiased experimental scientists run the study with no conflicts of interest. The pressure on that team will be incredible

No, part of being a good scientific study is being upfront about any (even potential) conflicts of interest. Most studies aren't interest-free, do you think e.g. CERN doesn't have a vested interest when it publishes studies about the LHC experiments?

There have been a lot of scandals in the news lately about low quality research due to these conflicts of interest in the past

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/05/time-to-assume-that-hea...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#642

Post by notch656a »

m0llusk wrote: post #419
the_doctah wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is about a free market, not collusion with the government to force vaccines on citizens.

Capitalism is about allowing ownership of property and profit from labor. Markets work best when there are a range of restrictions and taxes for services and subsidies that tune outcomes. Universal access to education, for example, is extremely expensive, but the benefits that come with having a literate society make the investment worthwhile.

>Markets work best when there are a range of restrictions and taxes for services and subsidies that tune outcomes

I'd argue markets work best when they're unencumbered. That means the range of taxes and subsidies are zero, because there are none. Literacy is a fine investment but shouldn't come at extraction of wealth at gunpoint.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#643

Post by ostenning »

junon wrote: post #601
ostenning wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I did take the vaccine, twice. It gives me great anxiety to think about taking it again given what I have gone through. My situation improved significantly but I might not be so lucky next time. I shouldnt have to weigh up potential damage to my heart, versus my right to freedom of movement (im an expat). Personally im holding out for Novavax now.

There have only been a handful of cases of myocarditis or pericarditis in mRNA vaccine recipients, generally young males. A handful . And none of them have died from it. Remember that VAERS is pretty much the most garbage 'signal' you can possibly get when it comes to side effect reporting as there is pretty much no barrier to entry to get a 'side effect' in there - much less the requirement that you're a medical pro…

> A handful

The reality is the statistics are always being revised and they are being revised in the direction that heart inflammation is more prevalent than initially thought.

According to the Australian TGA, this rate has been revised to 1/10000 for adolescent boys [1][2]. That is a pretty high value.

This continual rise in myocarditis incidence rates indicates to me that nobody really knows how prevalent these side-effects actually are.

I stand by my statement. People that did experience heart inflammation should not have to choose between participating in society and being boosted with vaccines that have previously injured them.

[1] - https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/vaccine-myocarditi...

[2] - https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safe...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#644

Post by pknight »

junon wrote: post #601
ostenning wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I did take the vaccine, twice. It gives me great anxiety to think about taking it again given what I have gone through. My situation improved significantly but I might not be so lucky next time. I shouldnt have to weigh up potential damage to my heart, versus my right to freedom of movement (im an expat). Personally im holding out for Novavax now.

There have only been a handful of cases of myocarditis or pericarditis in mRNA vaccine recipients, generally young males. A handful . And none of them have died from it. Remember that VAERS is pretty much the most garbage 'signal' you can possibly get when it comes to side effect reporting as there is pretty much no barrier to entry to get a 'side effect' in there - much less the requirement that you're a medical pro…

In the UK over 300 hundred thousand adverse events have been reported to the yellow card system, with over a 1000 deaths. I've heard that VAERS underreports because medical professionals don't have the time to make the submissions (I don't really know if that's true or not). It's impossible to confirm what the precise risks are and whether those reporting systems are over- or understating the real picture, but it's irresponsible, I think, to handwave about risks to someone who clearly had a bad response.

I know someone who had both the myocarditis as well as a severe allergic reaction, which could have been fatal if she hadn't received benadryl in time. After that, she was advised by her doctor to not get the 2nd shot. But because the social pressure being placed on people is so high, she is still minded to get the 2nd shot even when her own doctor advises against it. I don't think medical decisions should be swayed by peer pressure from people on the internet, or an employer.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#645

Post by bigodbiel »

johnisgood wrote: post #157
bufferoverflow wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one study, the transmission rate of the vaccinated was around 10% lower than of the non-vaccinated. It's good, but won't stop the virus from spreading even if everyone is vaccinated.

Hmm, what about "everyone" catching the variant that causes mostly fatigue only? I heard it is related to common cold as well. If everyone (or the majority) caught it and went through it, we would have pretty good immunity against the more harmful variants, right?

Well, lately even the CDC finally bend their knees to the alter of Immunology updating their internal guidance on natural immunity that "overall SARS-CoV-2-specific IgG remain detectable in approximately 90% of persons who seroconvert up to 10 months to one year post-infection" [1]

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...

I always joke that we should have placed all the elders, high risk, plus whoever else wanted, in stasis for a year, and let Rona rip!

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#646

Post by timr »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #604
timr wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's good evidence that natural infection is more robust than vaccination alone, and that a combination of infection + a booster is best overall: https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on...

That may be a silver lining, but the statement was "is COVID infection preferable to a vaccination". COVID infection, if you're not aware, also can have downsides. This evidence does not make "lets get COVID" a good idea on balance.

I'm not suggesting that people should run out and get infected in lieu of getting a vaccine.

I am suggesting that this mad rush toward boosters-for-all is unscientific and driven by hysteria.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#647

Post by bigodbiel »

api wrote: post #27
tazjin wrote: post #3

Product manufacturer recommends use of its product. Surprise!

If a seatbelt maker encourages seatbelts, is this evidence that seatbelts don't work?

If seatbelts failed at the same rate of these vaccines, there would be a lot of corporate scapegoats going to jail

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#648

Post by potta_coffee »

edmundsauto wrote: post #609
potta_coffee wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's semantics whether or not full-blown flu symptoms are "the flu" or not; I get the flu shot, then I get sick.

Except you aren’t going to risk getting very sick (pneumonia) from the vaccinated response. And you aren’t going to give the virus to someone else.

Enjoy your moral superiority, and I'll enjoy not feeling like dog crap for a week after getting the shot.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#649

Post by jjtheblunt »

codeulike wrote: post #200
avsteele wrote: post #160

If there is an expert in immunology here I'd really like to ask a question: Aren't antibody titers just one measure of immunity? Since ~everyone with just two shots get them a while ago, and people receiving the boosters are receiving them now, wouldn't we expect must higher levels of neutralizing antibodies in boosted people? I know the number of antibodies fades over time, (whether from vaccine or infection) but th…

There's the whole t-cell and b-cell stuff that protects from serious disease but it's much harder to test/measure so you don't get these rapid headline grabbing lab studies. T-cells as I understand it are much less likely to be thrown off by spike mutations because they react to whole genome of virus (edit: T-cells from an infection that is).

> because they react to whole genome of virus

Why do you think that?

A genome codes for protein production. T-cells are something like a Unix grep for protein sequences (instead of character regexes) with their grep argument a memorized protein sequence to recognize in the wild.

So it's some sort of dumb luck if the entirety of proteins, specified in a genome's blueprints, would happen to have t-cells assigned to recognize all of them.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#650

Post by junon »

pknight wrote: post #644
junon wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have only been a handful of cases of myocarditis or pericarditis in mRNA vaccine recipients, generally young males. A handful . And none of them have died from it. Remember that VAERS is pretty much the most garbage 'signal' you can possibly get when it comes to side effect reporting as there is pretty much no barrier to entry to get a 'side effect' in there - much less the requirement that you're a medical pro…

In the UK over 300 hundred thousand adverse events have been reported to the yellow card system, with over a 1000 deaths. I've heard that VAERS underreports because medical professionals don't have the time to make the submissions (I don't really know if that's true or not). It's impossible to confirm what the precise risks are and whether those reporting systems are over- or understating the real picture, but it's i…

The point about VAERS is that you do not need to be a medical professional to submit to VAERS. Joe Schmoe from down the lane can submit to VAERS and say the mRNA vaccine caused him to turn into the incredible hulk and it will be listed alongside people who had legitimate flu-like symptoms.
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