Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#531

Post by hcknwscommenter » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #206

nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

Long-lasting original antigenic sin (e.g., an immune system trapped for years (or forever) in a sub-optimal state by a vaccination event) is a very unlikely scenario. I don't think we have ever seen something like that for any other virus? So, it's no surprise you haven't found much data. I would also suggest you critically examine whatever data you have found that supposedly backs up this concern of yours.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#532

Post by potta_coffee » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #519

potta_coffee wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in the military for years. Vaccines galore for any and every conceivable illness. I was required to have flu shots. Every single flu shot I've had gave me the flu. Full blown sickness, within a day of receiving the shot. Since leaving the military I've not had a flu shot and I've not had the flu. Obviously it's anecdotal but you'll never convince me to start taking flu shots after such repeated experiences.

Technically I think your reaction is from the immune response to the vaccine. Which is unpleasant but not contagious. Now real flu viruses may have not yet given you symptoms since you stopped vaccinating. But it's possible you're becoming a carrier of the virus that spreads it to more vulnerable people. Some of whom may not be able to get vaccinated.

It's my choice not to take shots that make me sick, and no I won't take them again. It's unfortunate that some people have fragile health, but it's not really my problem. No amount of brow-beating will make it my problem. No, I'm not a calloused individual that doesn't care about others. I don't believe that anyone is required to undergo medical procedures in order to benefit me, and I will not undergo medical procedures for anyone else, especially considering my experience with those procedures (significant illness, every time).

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#533

Post by hcurtiss » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

bink wrote: post #509

hcurtiss wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Relatively high mortality”? Can you think of any virus even close to COVID mortality that we take these kinds of draconian measures to prevent?

I'm sure you know this but there hasn't been a pandemic virus as virulent and deadly as COVID-19 in modern times. For some perspective, Chicken Pox killed roughly 100 Americans every year and that vaccine was mandated in effectively all schools and universities across the country.

The chicken pox vaccine was invented in Japan in the 1970s, was approved for kids in the US in 1995, and required in schools sometime in the early 2000's, depending on the state -- nearly 30 years after its invention. This is very unlike the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#534

Post by somehnacct3757 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #394

When I see threads like these with all the buried/flagged comments I get strong "dangerous thinking" vibes. I won't be taking any more of these.

If all it takes is hacker news comment threads to sway your opinions on medical topics, you were probably looking for an excuse to not take the vaccine already. Barely anyone here is an expert on this topic and if there were experts here, you would find them at the top of the thread - not buried behind moderation at the bottom.

This is a website for fans of startups and tech. The closest we get to statistics is some middleware vendor optimized for p-hacking. Applying startup thinking to mature fields is a constant source of egg-on-face for silicon valley, as demonstrated famously by IoT safety devices. [0]

The reason for large downvotes and flags in a thread like this is because there are a lot of people who think they know what they're talking about, but don't. The rigor to participate in this conversation is much higher than having a hot take on the latest MacBook. But that doesn't stop people from oversharing anyway.

[0] https://gekk.info/articles/iot.html

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#535

Post by hcknwscommenter » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #458

heimidal wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same article: > The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated.

Yes, and? The comment to which I'm responding said there's little evidence that natural immunity is better than vaccines. That's just not true. There's pretty strong evidence, actually. That natural immunity plus a booster is better than either is interesting, but not responsive to the question.

No there is not strong evidence. The Israeli study highlighted previous infection versus vaccinated but not (yet) infected. Note the "previously infected" category did not exclude the vaccinated, but the vaccinated category did exclude the previously infected. The only solid conclusion to make from that is: that even if you have been previously infected, get a vaccine.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#536

Post by hcknwscommenter » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

arcbyte wrote: post #278

peter422 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is little evidence right now that immunity through a natural infection is better than immunity from a vaccine. Given the strains circulating now I don’t think your concern is valid. Vaccines are better and less risky than having your naive immune system deal with covid. Maybe that will change with a future strain (though I’d bet against it), but it isn’t the case now.

> Vaccines are better and less risky than having your naive immune system deal with covid. Agreed. However, many people are not in that position. For those who have been infected but not vaccinated, they have experienced immune systems and must evaluate information from that starting point.

Except all available safety and efficacy data shows that those who have been infected but not vaccinated should get vaccinated.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#537

Post by IgorPartola » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #206

nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

There are other studies suggesting that infection + two doses of Pfizer could be effective whereas just two doses aren’t.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#538

Post by hcurtiss » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #295

foo_barrio wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have also been much worse though no? If those 3 days turned into 5 in a hospital with another long tail of lung issues would it still be worth it just not to get jabbed again?

Or rather if those 3 days turned into death. I'd rather take boosters every year than risk a horrible death.

No matter how small the risk?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#539

Post by ifyoubuildit » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #512

peteradio wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risks of vaccine complications are not the only risks to weigh against getting a vaccine. Now that these are being mandated it also becomes a risk of validating medical tyranny as an authoritarian methodology.

Is it tyranny if it’s what the majority wants and votes for? It seems like “tyranny” is being used to describe situations where democracy is working as expected, and some people just don’t want to accept the majority result. I feel like this word tyranny is being thrown around a lot lately without much rigorous thinking about the fact that we do need laws because we have no choice about having to share a lot of thing…

This may be relevant to your question: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#540

Post by giarc » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

Gwarzo wrote: post #385

giarc wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's like a hedge fund manager giving public advice on stock picks. Why not? Stock picking is their job. Given that logic, a teacher shouldn't tell people how to teach their kid to read, and a plumber shouldn't tell people how to change a faucet.

This is a hilariously uninformed take - it's clear you don't understand how this works so I will just be direct and not make fun of you. The hedge fund manager has access to billions in managed capital. If he can advertise positions to the public, and the public takes his advice; he can manipulate his billions of dollars vs the known positions he gives out to hedge his own positions. This is a 5 years olds descriptio…

I was referring more to "giving public" advice like advice to his friends. But I'll accept I'm wrong on this though.