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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#441

Post by m-i-l »

jaspax wrote: post #330
mitchdoogle wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We get flu vaccine every year, what's wrong with getting vaccinated forever?

Who's "we"? I don't intend any hostility here. But I have never gotten a flu vaccine in my life, and it seems deeply silly to me to get a yearly shot just to cut down on the chance of mild illness. A quick poll of my acquaintances reveals that almost no one in my social circle gets flu shots, either. This makes me wonder whether the antagonism to mandatory COVID boosters is just an intensification of an existing divi…

I got the flu when I was in my late 20s. Up until that point, in common I suspect with most teens and twenty-somethings, I had thought myself pretty much indestructible, so would never have even thought about getting a flu vaccine - I thought that was only for the old and vulnerable. However, since that experience, I try and get one every year - even if you are young and healthy it can be pretty rough, and why risk having to go through that again if you can avoid it?

To the GP's question, about whether catching something gives you better protection than having a vaccine, my (non-expert) expectation is that Covid is like the flu - my having had the flu won't give me protection for all future strains, so I'll keep on needing new vaccines periodically for those new strains.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#442

Post by swader999 »

nullc wrote: post #383
shmatt wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitalization and death numbers are definitely directly connected to how long its been since you got your shot. So for now, it does not seem like the whole long immunity/T-B-cell thing is happening with Pfizer/Moderna/J&J at least There is a very real per month affect, every month after your latest mRNA shot, your chances of getting seriously sick get a little bigger. After 6 months they get so big that scientists…

> Hospitalization and death numbers are definitely directly connected There has never been a RCT which showed covid vaccination reduces mortality. I believe they do but this has not been rigorously shown. Unfortunately, even though we've had gigantic RCTs on covid none of them showed statistically significant covid-mortality in the unvaccinated population (potentially due to prescreening eliminating people who were a…

We need all-cause mortality stats from vaccinated vs non vaccinated populations but they won't give us these without fighting for it. For instance, Pfizer's all cause data from their initial trial was higher in the vaccinated group. So they then went and vaccinated the control group thus destroying any chance of long term study in this population.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#443

Post by swader999 »

Brybry wrote: post #363
millettjon wrote: post #309

This paper from Africa Health Research Institute shows a 41x reduction in effectiveness of pfizer vaccine for omicron. https://www.ahri.org/omicron-incompletely-escapes-immunity-i... https://www.ahri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MEDRXIV-2021...

This preprint also shows reduced antibody neutralization of omicron in comparison to delta (including for double vaccinated + previous infection). Note the sample sizes for all these studies is small. 12 participants for the AHRI paper and 8 to 20 per group for this one. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.21267432v...

Sample size doesn't really matter much in this kind of study.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#444

Post by jmnicolas »

robotmay wrote: post #438
jmnicolas wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lost battle, the majority on HN decided to suspend doubt about the vaccines and the crooks at Pfizer (look at their judiciary past, the name crook is warranted). It's funny how smart people can read regularly articles that show that 90% of scientific papers aren't reproducible (so it's actually not science) then will proceed to trust blindly the next scientific paper they read.

It's not censorship if people just think you're fucking idiots.

Have a nice day :)

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#445

Post by newsbinator »

twofornone wrote: post #156
newsbinator wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were the opposite, that they didn't believe a third dose of their vaccine was effective, do you believe they would still be making the same announcement?

Absolutely. This wouldn't be the first time that a company massaged data to produce misleading results. They are raking in cash here, there is no doubt, and free of legal liability. No one is likely to hold them accountable and at worst they might receive a fine or settle a lawsuit or two which will cost far less than what was made in profit.

I dunno, that would result in tens of thousands or possibly even tens of millions of unnecessary deaths in the long term. Pfizer's CEO has a family just like everybody else.

Even if we were to attribute malice to Pfizer's leadership, that's malice on a scale the world rarely sees.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#446

Post by ptaipale »

christkv wrote: post #404
TechBro8615 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much are you willing to bet? Keep in mind that if the population is 90% vaccinated, you expect something approaching 90% of ICU beds to be vaccinated (well, with an effective and sterilizing vaccine you wouldn’t expect this, but that’s not where we are). In England last month, 79% of Covid deaths were vaccinated. Currently about 36% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated. The raw data is here, good luck parsing any…

A majority of deaths in the winter months will be elderly people with underlying health conditions that might have died from a flue or cold virus if covid was not circulating. It's more interesting to see excess deaths for this winter. I have a hunch excess death rates will be similar to 2019.

I don't think so, but we can quite well follow it up here, for most developed and semi-developed countries.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

(As OWID relies on official data sources, they may be skewed or manipulated for undeveloped or autocratic countries)

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#447

Post by timr »

teknofobi wrote: post #423
dolni wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary -- welcome to the world trust building. If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. And if the thing you know isn't actually known, like how effective the vaccine really is, that goes double. Notice that doesn't require you to "know the truth from the beginning in one step." It requires the people in charge to show some restraint. You only get so many opportunities to be…

Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. > And if the thing you know isn't actually known Who do you want to be the arbiter that gatekeeps this information and decides the science is strong enough that you “actually know”?

> Who do you want to be the arbiter that gatekeeps this information and decides the science is strong enough that you “actually know”?

Maybe YouTube can do it. They seem to be eager to censor everything else.

(/s)

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#448

Post by creato »

hcurtiss wrote: post #401
ethbr0 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the usual way it goes, as long as relatively high mortality virus is circulating in most of the world population. Both infection- and vaccination-produced immunity decays over time. So everyone's choice is between keeping up their vaccination, or getting COVID repeatedly. Which boils down to a question of whether you think being vaccinated or getting COVID is less risky. Yes, there's some +/- on the decay rate…

“Relatively high mortality”? Can you think of any virus even close to COVID mortality that we take these kinds of draconian measures to prevent?

Can you think of any virus that caused hospitals around the world to be overwhelmed with patients, compromising their ability to treat normal ailments?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#449

Post by wsc981 »

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

If you want to hear some shocking data regarding the Pfizer vaccine, you should listen to this recent US FDA discussion at 4h20m: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFph7-6t34M&t=15607s

Seems the Pfizer vaccine actually kills more people than it saves, due to the side effects of the vaccine.

It's also mentioned a few minutes later that the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, which has very low vaccination rates, almost has no (severe) COVID cases.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#450

Post by nahqz »

beervirus wrote: post #374
jmnicolas wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expert on tv explained it just yesterday.. 3 shots is actually what you need for most vaccines and is the common procedure for most if you remember.. The same so called experts that will say that now you need the 4th dose, the 5th etc. It's now obvious that it's a vaccine as a service. Pfizer ceo's hinted at it last year, saying it would probably be recurring every 6 months.

That’s… fine? I don’t care if I have to get a jab every 6 months. I don’t care if Pfizer and Moderna make a ton of money off this—they deserve it.

That's cool, you can give them as much money as you want. My problem is when it is me giving them the money (directly or through my taxes)
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