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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#301

Post by ViViDboarder »

hammock wrote: post #262
pseudalopex wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boosting with the original vaccine was effective for delta.

We do have a Delta-specific jab though that has gone through trials. Why not release it for sale? Just to save the government money on all the older jobs they already bought and haven't used?

Not just that, but distribution and whether or not you are ready to push for every person to get the updated one or not. People will fatigue from having to keep up, especially if only a month after their last shot there is a “new” one for a new variant, and then omicron comes out and a “new” one for that. You could end up with far more boosters than actually needed at which point people will get confused or mentally burnt out on it.

I think there are some sound reasons for not jumping on updated vaccines for every variant and only ones that the original doesn’t appear sufficient for.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#302

Post by gentleman11 »

yvdriess wrote: post #94
silent_cal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they should not make recommendations to the public, because they aren't a public agency - they have a conflict of interest. It's like a hedge fund manager giving public advice on stock picks.

Not the same. They are not giving advice or recommendations, they are reporting the results of a study. That's the beauty of a good scientific study: you do not have to trust the author. In fact don't, the more people try to find errors the better.

Part of being a good scientific study is having unbiased experimental scientists run the study with no conflicts of interest. The pressure on that team will be incredible

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#303

Post by sho_hn »

mrtksn wrote: post #191
1cvmask wrote: post #2

This is the scientific meat of the press release where it claims a 25 times neutralizing antibody titers against the Omicron strain with a third dose of Pfizer-BionTech: The sera were collected from subjects 3 weeks after receiving the second dose or one month after receiving the third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. Each serum was tested simultaneously for its neutralizing antibody titer against the wi…

> Does anyone have a list where BionTech distributes directly? It's Germany and Turkey. In a press release earlier this year[0], BioNTech described their relationship with Pfizer and they listed the countries it covers. Also, for China they have another company instead of Pfizer. Why Germany and Turkey, you may ask? Well, the inventors and founders of the company are Turkish immigrants to Germany. So they are able to…

They also have a licensee (and early R&D investor) in China, Fosun Pharma. I don't know if Fosun is actively manufacturing and distributing, but I think they have the exclusive rights for the Chinese mainland, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#304

Post by mitchdoogle »

listless wrote: post #206
nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

We get flu vaccine every year, what's wrong with getting vaccinated forever?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#305

Post by [deleted] »

arcbyte wrote: post #278
peter422 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is little evidence right now that immunity through a natural infection is better than immunity from a vaccine. Given the strains circulating now I don’t think your concern is valid. Vaccines are better and less risky than having your naive immune system deal with covid. Maybe that will change with a future strain (though I’d bet against it), but it isn’t the case now.

> Vaccines are better and less risky than having your naive immune system deal with covid. Agreed. However, many people are not in that position. For those who have been infected but not vaccinated, they have experienced immune systems and must evaluate information from that starting point.

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#306

Post by marcosdumay »

phkahler wrote: post #265
hamburglar1 wrote: post #239

Is there a comprehensive white-paper anywhere with sample sizes and error bars? Otherwise this seems like an anecdote. "The sera were collected from subjects 3 weeks after receiving the second dose or one month after receiving the third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine" How do we know this study isn't just measuring the effect of that additional week? Also how many subjects was this sera pulled from? Are…

>> Is there a comprehensive white-paper anywhere with sample sizes and error bars? Otherwise this seems like an anecdote. It's marketing. When the vaccine effectiveness is waning the solution seems to be more of it If it only took 2 days to create the vaccine, why do they not have an updated one? Is there another in development that targets more than just the spike protein? Why is the entire defense that vaccine?

> If it only took 2 days to create the vaccine, why do they not have an updated one?

There's a deafening silence every time somebody asks this.

From what I've been able to see, it's because regulatory bodies won't accept an update vaccine without 8 months of testing, and the manufacturers are doing the testing, but at those delays there isn't really any point.

Why regulatory bodies won't accept updated vaccines is the more interesting question.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#307

Post by podgaj »

altacc wrote: post #71
silent_cal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they should not make recommendations to the public, because they aren't a public agency - they have a conflict of interest. It's like a hedge fund manager giving public advice on stock picks.

So you're saying no company ever should undertake any promotion of the benefits of their products? The advertising industry wants a word with you!

The vaccine is just a product? Like a pair of Nike's? Are you kidding me? I wonder how many phishing emails you fall for every month...

We have (some) laws regulating what advertisers can say. Putting out a press releases like this is, in effect, an advertisement. It sways public opinion and will effect their profits.

And did you know the US is the only country where it is legal for pharmaceutical companies to advertise their medications to the public?

And did you know the pharmaceutical companies are the main source of revenue for the FDA, the agency that approves their drugs?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#308

Post by dd36 »

mwint wrote: post #255
dd36 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s not including the recent studies of high death rates for those with severe covid within a year.

Link? My initial impression is that this would be confounded by people who have severe covid also tending to be old or otherwise sickly, unless they found a way to control for that.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/severe-c...
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