Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#211

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #184

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfizer are on it (1). They estimate that it takes around 3 months. Which actually is really easy. And the others are following suit in similar timeframes (2) The hard part is deciding if this variant is the one that you're going to vaccinate against for a year or more. That takes data, which also takes time. 1) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/biontech-say... 2) https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc…

Is there a good reason that they haven't updated their vaccine for Delta, which has been out for much longer than 3 months? Over 99% of cases in the US are Delta now, which the original jab wasn't designed for.

Boosting with the original vaccine was effective for delta.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#212

Post by listless » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #177

junon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Admittedly a weird way of communicating it but I think they're trying to accommodate those who are already confused. I personally think it's having the opposite effect.

I wager it's more to avoid the "what, a 3rd dose?" reaction. "Booster" is more positive than "we told you it would be immunization, but actually it's partial and limited, and you have to do it again. Woops, now again". Especially since people have been talking about a 4th dose. In the context of distrust of the pharma industry, it would be easy to have the social networks to claim pfizer is trying to become the netfl…

Given how sick the second dose made me, I'm not keen on doing this every 6 months. Not keen.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#213

Post by CountDrewku » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

drewcon wrote: post #52

neither_color wrote: post #11

It's not deadly enough for me to consider a booster, I'll pass on this supplementary shot https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-has-not-seen-any-repor...

I’m fascinated by this thinking. Do you really want to roll the dice on an infection and long term consequences including permanent loss of smell (and taste)? If this virus killed exactly no one but it just commonly removed one of your senses…is that not motivation enough to avoid it? Additionally, I just got over a two week adenovirus infection and it absolutely sucked. Not the sickest I’ve been, but the most sympto…

>Do you really want to roll the dice on an infection and long term consequences including permanent loss of smell (and taste)?"

Do I want to roll the dice on taking constant boosters from a vaccine that caused me nasty side effects? For a disease that I have a .0007% chance of dying from and most likely getting mild cold symptoms?(probably even less since I'm not obese or morbidly ill already). Give me a percentage on how many people have had "long-term" loss of smell and taste.

>The risk from the third shot is essentially immaterial to a healthy adult.

What age and what sex? This idea that there's no risk to healthy individuals taking the vaccine is pure bullshit. Besides it's typically the unhealthy that need vaccination for this disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8270733/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8416687/

I'm fascinated by this weird trend towards authoritarianism when someone else not getting vaccinated is zero threat to you. The only logical explanation for this is perhaps fear of hospital burden but right now there's still plenty of room https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization. However, if you believe this is an issue I would ask why the hospitals keep filling up when our high risk population almost 90% vaccinated....

https://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-C...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#214

Post by Flankk » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

drewcon wrote: post #52

neither_color wrote: post #11

It's not deadly enough for me to consider a booster, I'll pass on this supplementary shot https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-has-not-seen-any-repor...

I’m fascinated by this thinking. Do you really want to roll the dice on an infection and long term consequences including permanent loss of smell (and taste)? If this virus killed exactly no one but it just commonly removed one of your senses…is that not motivation enough to avoid it? Additionally, I just got over a two week adenovirus infection and it absolutely sucked. Not the sickest I’ve been, but the most sympto…

I was not vaccinated because I am concerned about the effects of the spike protein on the brain. An early study showed significant damage to the blood brain barrier.[1] A more recent study shows the vaccine actually suppresses the immune system in certain individuals.[2] Natural immunity is far more robust and is long lasting whereas the vaccine has proven to wane in effectiveness over the course of a few months.[3]

Your side downplays the risk of mRNA technology when the long-term risks are in fact unknown. You also tend to ignore that there are more viable options than simply taking the vaccine or being permanently debilitated. Pfizer and Merck have an effective treatment right around the corner.

[1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201029141941.h...

[2] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232396/immune-imprinting-cau...

[3] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#215

Post by macinjosh » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

yvdriess wrote: post #94

silent_cal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they should not make recommendations to the public, because they aren't a public agency - they have a conflict of interest. It's like a hedge fund manager giving public advice on stock picks.

Not the same. They are not giving advice or recommendations, they are reporting the results of a study. That's the beauty of a good scientific study: you do not have to trust the author. In fact don't, the more people try to find errors the better.

General Mills had studies showing sugary cereals are a part of a healthy diet.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#216

Post by fullstop » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #131

nsxwolf wrote: post #128

Why haven’t they updated the vaccine? I thought one of the major benefits of this technology was the ease with which you can modify them.

Pfizer are on it (1). They estimate that it takes around 3 months. Which actually is really easy. And the others are following suit in similar timeframes (2) The hard part is deciding if this variant is the one that you're going to vaccinate against for a year or more. That takes data, which also takes time. 1) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/biontech-say... 2) https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc…

How long does it take to ramp up production? I'm at 6 months and a few days since my 2nd shot. Do I get a booster now or wait a few months in hope of an updated one?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#217

Post by CountDrewku » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

efficax wrote: post #44

neither_color wrote: post #11

It's not deadly enough for me to consider a booster, I'll pass on this supplementary shot https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-has-not-seen-any-repor...

Omicron isn't the only variant or even the dominate one outside of South Africa. If you've already gotten the initial doses, why wouldn't you complete your vaccination? There's only upside to it at that point

What do you mean by complete? A couple months ago 2 vaccinations was "complete".

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#218

Post by formerly_proven » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #177

junon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Admittedly a weird way of communicating it but I think they're trying to accommodate those who are already confused. I personally think it's having the opposite effect.

I wager it's more to avoid the "what, a 3rd dose?" reaction. "Booster" is more positive than "we told you it would be immunization, but actually it's partial and limited, and you have to do it again. Woops, now again". Especially since people have been talking about a 4th dose. In the context of distrust of the pharma industry, it would be easy to have the social networks to claim pfizer is trying to become the netfl…

> "we told you it would be immunization, but actually it's partial and limited, and you have to do it again. Woops, now again"

This is often portrayed as something people say, do they actually? Because that's exactly how it works with e.g. the flu. It's called yearly flu shot for a reason... 'cause it's yearly.

    [x] Usually occurs in waves during winter
    [x] Vaccine is effective for around 4-6 months
    [x] Vaccine does not confer sterile immunity
    [x] Transmitted through air
    [x] Transmitted especially in crowds and enclosed rooms
    [x] Masks work
    [x] Infects respiratory tract but
        can cause severe auto-immune inflammation afterwards
    [x] Can cause long-term respiratory issues
    [x] Many people do OK being infected, but long tail of death

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#219

Post by flyingfences » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

> the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated

But if the vaccinated represent a much larger share of the population, the same absolute number represents a much smaller proportion who become infected.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#220

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #184

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfizer are on it (1). They estimate that it takes around 3 months. Which actually is really easy. And the others are following suit in similar timeframes (2) The hard part is deciding if this variant is the one that you're going to vaccinate against for a year or more. That takes data, which also takes time. 1) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/biontech-say... 2) https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc…

Is there a good reason that they haven't updated their vaccine for Delta, which has been out for much longer than 3 months? Over 99% of cases in the US are Delta now, which the original jab wasn't designed for.

> Delta now, which the original jab wasn't designed for.

Current vaccines have still been "highly effective" against Delta, so I think that's why this hasn't been done: there's no point in using the big guns now when the existing weapon works well, and you might really need the big gun soon (and you can't know when).

So it's better to keep it in reserve. The question now is, is Omicron "it" ?