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Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

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Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#181

Post by dathinab »

rout39574 wrote: post #54
crate_barre wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t like this devolving into politics, which they really need to get over because the historical fact (when this is all said and done) is that Covid was heavily politicized by both sides in a variety of countries.

I think it's more about unsubstantiated conclusions, hysterically presented. If the original post had outlined the data points that led them to the (IMO erroneous) impression they reached, then the point could have been rebutted.

Probably I took a look at the data linked and I have absolutely not idea how he came to that conclusion.

Like if you pick a age and week and then compare the age group+week specific death rate of fully vaccinated to the death rate of the same age group+week for unvaccinated people and it at least nearly always (I haven't check all data points) very clear that the death rate for unvaccinated people is worse.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#183

Post by detaro »

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

> all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and death

It's a balance. E.g. Germanys current trouble is a direct consequence of official policy that had a core of "we only care about hospitalizations now", but ignored "... and based on case numbers and other statistics, what will future hospitalizations look like if we don't change anything about our approach" - not helped by election campaigns and politicians publicly admitting they haven't understood this whole "exponential" malarky yet. You really need to consider more than just one number.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#184

Post by hammock »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #131
nsxwolf wrote: post #128

Why haven’t they updated the vaccine? I thought one of the major benefits of this technology was the ease with which you can modify them.

Pfizer are on it (1). They estimate that it takes around 3 months. Which actually is really easy. And the others are following suit in similar timeframes (2) The hard part is deciding if this variant is the one that you're going to vaccinate against for a year or more. That takes data, which also takes time. 1) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/biontech-say... 2) https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc…

Is there a good reason that they haven't updated their vaccine for Delta, which has been out for much longer than 3 months? Over 99% of cases in the US are Delta now, which the original jab wasn't designed for.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#185

Post by mentat »

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

"Remain obsessed" with transmission of a highly contagious virus that has shown significant ability to mutate at scale? That sure seems worth being obsessed about. When it mutates to spread past all current defenses then consistently kill because we failed to stop current spread it will indeed be "depressing".

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#186

Post by soared »

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

That’s a weird way to phrase your second paragraph, considering hospitals have been close to full very recently in parts of the us.

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#187

Post by cblconfederate »

stolenmerch wrote: post #146

If I'm reading this correctly, this is "protection against severe disease" and has little to do with transmission. The National Airport Data from Israel seems to suggest "the absolute number of infected individuals in the Vaccinated (boosted) group is likely to be at least as high as in the Unvaccinated" [0] So it seems to me that as long as we all remain obsessed with case numbers and not actual hospitalizations and…

This is neither about transmission nor severe disease. The study itself is a lab test to see how the new virus holds up against the vaccines, their suggestions about protection are still conjecture

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#188

Post by podgaj »

cure wrote: post #75
bmitc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the CVS person who did my booster, the booster for Pfizer is a full dose while the Moderna booster is a half dose (relative to each manufacturer's original first and second shot doses).

According to this source https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/02/comparing-the-covid-19-v... the original Pfizer dose was 30 micrograms of vaccine, while Moderna's was 100 micrograms. If that is correct, then Moderna's booster would still be more vaccine (50 micrograms) than Pfizer's original dose. Of course more is not necessarily better!

Thinking seriously about this, I will ask, were these different dosages a work of collusion between these companies and the government because they were so unsure of the reaction and efficacy at a specific dose? Was it, in effect, a huge "clinical trial"?

Between Pfizer and Moderna what is the difference other than dose? Didn't they use the same mRNA? So what was the science behind them choosing different doses? Were they guessing or were they colluding?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#189

Post by junon »

boringg wrote: post #124
junon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know how deadly it is. This article grossly misinterprets what literally every epidemiologist is saying right now which is "we don't f***ing know, just chill and let us do our jobs". It is irresponsible and incorrect to state "it's not deadly". We can hardly detect it, we are still doing retroactive testing to see if omicron has been around longer than thought, and to see if it resulted in deaths.

So heres the thing. That might be right, but if it turns out omicron is deadly, we have a quiver in our arrow thats ready to fly in the near future (roll outs, manufacturing and public campaign will take some time). So in the case of a deadly fourth wave we have some strategy instead of just huck and pray. Only reason we have any sense of normalcy is through the scientific achievement of these vaccines and the public…

Yes of course, but just like we can't say "it's not deadly" we can't also say "it is deadly". That's not to say we shouldn't be prepared, as you said. I think most epidemiologists agree with that.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#190

Post by pfg »

mwint wrote: post #99
giarc wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination. Why it doesn't seem to be working is that not everyone is getting vaccinated and there are pockets where the numbers are even lower. EVERY single study shows the likelihood of hospitalization and death is much higher in unvaccinated individuals, why is this hard to understand?

Let’s suppose we won’t hit 100% vaccination rates, for whatever reason. Are we doing this lockdown thing forever, then?

We'll have to do it as long as there's a risk that the healthcare system would get overloaded to a degree that significantly affects the population as a whole, due to delayed treatment of things like cancer or ICU beds not being available in the event of a medical emergency.

Beyond that, a lockdown is not the only non-pharmaceutical intervention that's available to us. It's just that many governments have failed to use other tools at the right time and in a way that's actually effective, often only implementing them right before the peak of a wave when it's way too late.

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