Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#201

Post by jptech » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

AlanSE wrote: post #179

jptech wrote: post #149

I bet they had leaked this article to Wall st. yesterday and that's why we saw the markets rise sharply.

Really? This doesn't look like good news to me. It's fairly positive on the effectiveness of boosters, but negative on the original doses. That would still suggest a COVID spread through the vaccinated population (the bulk of the population) with vastly less social distancing that the first year of the pandemic. The US and Europe will not get boosters to even 40% of the population before the new wave's peak.

It's an assurance that the current vaccines work + less severe cases/fatality compared to other variants. Good enough for the bulls to stay bullish.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#202

Post by lb0 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

disambiguation wrote: post #73

I have a few relatives in the medical field (all vaxxed and boosted) that have explained the booster shot is just more of the same stuff - they haven't had time to make a new recipe.. so isn't this just the same study all over again? i.e 2 shots had high protection in the beginning and waned over time. Can we expect the same from the booster shot?

Expert on tv explained it just yesterday.. 3 shots is actually what you need for most vaccines and is the common procedure for most if you remember..

1st shot "warns" your immune system 2nd shot really triggers your immune system (that's also why most people see strongest side effects here) 3rd shot then makes your immune remind, and massively increases B+T lymphocytesmemory memory cells

So yeah, you can expect a lot from it.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#203

Post by l33tman » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

avsteele wrote: post #160

If there is an expert in immunology here I'd really like to ask a question: Aren't antibody titers just one measure of immunity? Since ~everyone with just two shots get them a while ago, and people receiving the boosters are receiving them now, wouldn't we expect must higher levels of neutralizing antibodies in boosted people? I know the number of antibodies fades over time, (whether from vaccine or infection) but th…

From what I can remember from my immunology class, B-cells specific to a particular antibody will detect the antigen in a re-infection, start to massively clone themselves and quickly increase the specific antibody titer in the blood in response.

It doesn't make sense from an energy point of view for these to get produced in large volumes in the blood forever, so unless you're continually re-infected, the antibody titers will then drop but the memory B-cells remain, ready for a new round.

What's crucial is how fast the immune system can ramp up again in a re-infection, perhaps for COVID19 this is almost always fast enough to prevent a deadly re-infection but not fast enough to prevent any form of viral replication and shedding and this is why vaccinated still spread the virus around (and this might keep being the case with the current type of vaccines for corona viruses unless you deal out 10 billion booster doses every quarter).

So the question is complex and depends on what your goals are, and all of this has to be dumbed down in a way for consumption by the general public who just want to know "how long is my vaccine good for"... :/

Perhaps the antibody blood titer is not the only data that is relevant, but maybe it's determined that it correlates to one of the outcomes in a good enough way..

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#204

Post by Enginerrrd » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #122

cure wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this source https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/02/comparing-the-covid-19-v... the original Pfizer dose was 30 micrograms of vaccine, while Moderna's was 100 micrograms. If that is correct, then Moderna's booster would still be more vaccine (50 micrograms) than Pfizer's original dose. Of course more is not necessarily better!

One wonders if another full dose of Moderna would provide even better protection, given that a correlation has been found with the dosage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28580745

It almost certainly would. But with all vaccines, there is a balance between enough and too much immune response.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#205

Post by mentat » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

mwint wrote: post #113

nicoburns wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really normalcy if one still has to be concerned about catching covid and/or passing it on to vulnerable relatives though.

You don’t have to be concerned. Another commenter brought up that the death rate per 100k is in the range of 1.1 (vaccinated) to ~5 (unvaccinated). Car accidents are >10/100k/yr.

How can you look at rate and range of mutation and make blithe comments on how many will die based on original covid rates?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#206

Post by listless » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #158

logicchains wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, this differs from recent results suggesting that boosting with vaccines derived from the original Wuhan variant is relatively less effective against newer variants like delta: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v... .

Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to…

This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#207

Post by snovv_crash » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #177

junon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Admittedly a weird way of communicating it but I think they're trying to accommodate those who are already confused. I personally think it's having the opposite effect.

I wager it's more to avoid the "what, a 3rd dose?" reaction. "Booster" is more positive than "we told you it would be immunization, but actually it's partial and limited, and you have to do it again. Woops, now again". Especially since people have been talking about a 4th dose. In the context of distrust of the pharma industry, it would be easy to have the social networks to claim pfizer is trying to become the netfl…

Well, it was effective as promised against the strains it was marketed as effective against. Those strains have been effectively eradicated. The issue is Delta, and now Omicron, which developed after the vaccine was designed.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#208

Post by phgn » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

Isn't it a little suspicious that they claim more of their existing vaccine will protect that well against the new variant?

I don't want to question the rigour of their scientific testing, but it might be good to have independent tests done. Of course in parallel to giving out more booster shots, which can only help (by an unknown amount).

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#209

Post by bobthechef » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

Jenk wrote: post #14

neither_color wrote: post #11

It's not deadly enough for me to consider a booster, I'll pass on this supplementary shot https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-has-not-seen-any-repor...

Not deadly enough _to you_. I'm sure those who are vulnerable will thank you immensely for your compassion.

There are plenty of threats to the vulnerable in the world. Should we therefore impose coercive blanket policies on everyone and across the board under the pretext of "compassion"? Is collateral damage unimportant?

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#210

Post by chrisjc » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

Jenk wrote: post #14

neither_color wrote: post #11

It's not deadly enough for me to consider a booster, I'll pass on this supplementary shot https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-has-not-seen-any-repor...

Not deadly enough _to you_. I'm sure those who are vulnerable will thank you immensely for your compassion.

I'm constantly shocked at how myopic and self-centered people are when responding to comments like this.

There are other ways that this virus impacts us all beyond just transmission. It's not all about you and your "plan" to deal with it if you get it.

For instance, it's impacting people that need medical attention unrelated to COVID. It's impacting the lives of those left behind trying to piece together the assets and debts (ICU!) of those that died from COVID without a trust or will. It's impacting those that now have to attend a large gathering to celebrate someone's life. It's pushing doctors, nurses, etc that are directly exposed to this madness to their limits, thus impacting quality of healthcare for the rest of us. It's driving up the cost of healthcare for us all. I could go on.