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Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

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Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#121

Post by emptyfile »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #103
klyrs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but keep rereading this. The statement "I've never done drugs" juxtaposed with "20 and 30 experiments" is kinda funny to me.

”Doing drugs” evokes images of injecting hard drugs with all the unclean nastiness. ”Experimenting with psychedelics” is really, really far from that reality.

What nonsense, is it so much different really? How much experience do you people really have with drugs in america to be making such sweeping statements?

"Unclean nastiness"? And wriggling around on the floor on a big dose of LSD for 12 hours is casual clean fun? Getting psychosis from shrooms is not a big of a deal as getting hooked on heroin?

Romanticizing psychedelics is a good starting point for abuse.

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#122

Post by throughouttio »

msoad wrote: post #110
throughouttio wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a strong Christian upbringing, but abandoned it at a young age. My adult life has been spent in natural sciences - research in physics, chemistry, biology. Few years back I had my series of experiments with LSD & psilocybin. No enlightment was obtained, but one of the major realizations was that some serious psychotherapy is needed to understand and fix my warped self-image and the way of living originating fro…

Was this written by GPT3?

Just by my (hopefully not fried) biological network :)

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#123

Post by dTal »

jklinger410 wrote: post #68
Elof wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that your sober perception exists only in your state of mind. My sober perception of the 'same' experiences you have is almost definitely not going to be the same as yours. So an altered state potentially gives you the realization that your personal experience isn't universal reality. In other words a personal perception of reality is not reality itself. This is why we have philosophy in general.…

This is such a silly conversation. We have cameras and all sorts of equipment that tracks a constant reality. Who gives a shit if people perceive it with varying levels of accuracy? What does it matter that introducing substances to the brain can reduce your ability to perceive it? There is evidence of reality, and childish mind games and semantic debates that it might not. I drop you off in the Gobi desert with no w…

You would do well to steel man this line of thought.

"Reality" can mean the physical patterns of atoms and electromagnetic radiation, which nobody suggests psychedelics change (although it's worth noting that you cannot completely eliminate subjectivity from your measurements even here, thanks to quantum physics). However we don't perceive atoms and radiation directly - we filter our senses through countless layers of filtering, interpretation, and abstraction. "Reality" for us encompasses a lot of concepts that are not so clear cut as "this pixel is that color". The clarity with which you perceive the world when sober is illusory, as evidenced by the widespread perception of paranormal phenomena by sober people - or even simple optical illusions.

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#124

Post by rendall »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #103
klyrs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but keep rereading this. The statement "I've never done drugs" juxtaposed with "20 and 30 experiments" is kinda funny to me.

”Doing drugs” evokes images of injecting hard drugs with all the unclean nastiness. ”Experimenting with psychedelics” is really, really far from that reality.

I'm going to just go ahead and inform everyone that experimenting with psychedelics is doing drugs.

I do hope to live in a world someday where informed consent is sacrosanct and legally protected; and people don't feel the need to split hairs like this.

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#125

Post by vekker »

jklinger410 wrote: post #68
Elof wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that your sober perception exists only in your state of mind. My sober perception of the 'same' experiences you have is almost definitely not going to be the same as yours. So an altered state potentially gives you the realization that your personal experience isn't universal reality. In other words a personal perception of reality is not reality itself. This is why we have philosophy in general.…

This is such a silly conversation. We have cameras and all sorts of equipment that tracks a constant reality. Who gives a shit if people perceive it with varying levels of accuracy? What does it matter that introducing substances to the brain can reduce your ability to perceive it? There is evidence of reality, and childish mind games and semantic debates that it might not. I drop you off in the Gobi desert with no w…

I think it's not a silly conversation at all. It hints to something that is so fundamental about existence.

You seem stuck in circular reasoning. The point is that when in an altered state, your conventional, "sober" model of reality breaks down and no longer applies. I think people "break through" when they realize their model of reality was constructed according to what they perceived through their available sense doors, but it's still just a construction, a model, a simulation, not reality itself. Even though it might be consistent when sober, it's self-referential consistency.

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#126

Post by [deleted] »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #65

At the risk of being "that guy", it has to be said that this kind of study is unreliable. Posting a bunch of messages to r/drugs and r/psychedelics to come take their survey is going to suffer from all sorts of statistical biases. It is still better than the lowest for the study, the sample size of one: "Well this is what I experienced". Yet here I go. I have always been a materialist, and I've also never done drugs…

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#127

Post by [deleted] »

ggpsv wrote: post #35
toomanydoubts wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's because it shows you that reality is not actually real. It's just a product of your senses. During a psychedelic trip, one might wonder "if I had been like this all my life, I would consider this to be reality, not what I'm used too". It fundamentally shows you that what you consider reality might be very, very, very wrong. So how can I trust my own senses and perceptions if they can be so powerfully m…

> What if the actual reality is what you experience during a trip Aldous Huxley touched on this idea of the brain acting as a valve or filter, wherein psychedelics loosen it and let through the stream of consciousness that you're alluding to.

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#128

Post by [deleted] »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #103
klyrs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but keep rereading this. The statement "I've never done drugs" juxtaposed with "20 and 30 experiments" is kinda funny to me.

”Doing drugs” evokes images of injecting hard drugs with all the unclean nastiness. ”Experimenting with psychedelics” is really, really far from that reality.

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#129

Post by [deleted] »

jklinger410 wrote: post #54
e40 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's what the GP meant. I think they meant your perception of reality can take more than one form. Often people fall into the trap of thinking their current perception of reality must be The One, but clearly what many people believe is very much not reality. It's just their current feeling about what their senses are telling them. In fact, in many cases, said perception is created from very little dat…

Sorry, that's not what they mean. My carpet is not changing color, my mother's face isn't melting. That's not happening on a physical level. My sober perception is repeatable and verifiable. It exists no matter my state of mind. It's novel to make yourself see things that are unreal. It's novel to have your emotions fluctuate wildly. But it's just novel, and unreal, and nothing more.

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics alter metaphysical beliefs

#130

Post by KptMarchewa »

klyrs wrote: post #83
tasty_freeze wrote: post #65

At the risk of being "that guy", it has to be said that this kind of study is unreliable. Posting a bunch of messages to r/drugs and r/psychedelics to come take their survey is going to suffer from all sorts of statistical biases. It is still better than the lowest for the study, the sample size of one: "Well this is what I experienced". Yet here I go. I have always been a materialist, and I've also never done drugs…

I can't help but keep rereading this. The statement "I've never done drugs" juxtaposed with "20 and 30 experiments" is kinda funny to me.

He ment before that "experiments".
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