Live data from Hacker News

Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

blog.devgenius.io

161–170 of 183 posts

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if I'm the only one, but I start writing code like this quite often. At first it's "comment only" to describe what I'm trying to achieve and then I'm adding functional code in/around it. I find that really helpful, although some might say there's some "comment bloat" in the end, as I often keep the comments, too.

That’s called BDD, isn’t it? :-)

I don't know to be honest. As a part-time programmer I just find it helpful to tackle the task like this. :-)

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#162
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of validation and urgency that are negative, you have also a true sense of popularity that indicates that the product works, has good reputation, fits a common purpose or is priced correctly. Crowd selection isn't negative, in fact without it we d just be picking fruit at random in the forest with a good chance of dying of poisonning, instead of chatting online... on a popular forum we think like minded people…

Crowd selection lead to Hitler, Jan 6th, COVID denial, Jonestown, etc.. Just because everyone believes the world is flat doesn't make it so.

But I mean, you immediately went to Hitler which is a lazy exit in a discussion and hard for me to defend, but let's try, since I'm French. When Germany had to submit to the Versaille Treaty and pay gold fines every year until 1975, went into a crisis compounded by the US financial crisis and we robbed the Ruhr coal mines to solve our own issues, voting Hitler with all his promises may have turned Germany around from its abject submission and sad destiny. It was too far into insanity but... wasnt it better than having the French elites continue to think that Germany had to be punished forever ?

At least in school in France we now learn not to blame ONLY the little guy voting out of despair, but also the unfair winners of WWI. Without that crowd deciding together to do something, anything, where would Germany be today ? Hard to be optimistic in 1933. And it drove the WWII winners into building a better post-war reparation program, not only explained by the communist scarecrow but also the lessons of the inception of WWII in Germany: revenge against abject humiliation.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#163
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very likely, and any kind of popularity information helps making decisions. In fact I mostly buy steam games in the popular section to sort out the trash. Each time I choose a niche unfeatured thing it turns out to be random trash nobody wanted... unsurprisingly. Why do you think your brain wouldnt rank a product with 500 views right now above a product with 3, or be wrong about such ranking ? I think it help…

Even if we assume for a minute that this information isn't being faked (which it very often probably is - see other thread) I think there are nuances there. Looking at something and actually buying it are different. If we really wanted to help the customer decide we might want to also show the number of customers that returned the item. Or wait: allow reviews of them ;) Would it help anyone to see that "200 people ar…

Reviews are insanely more useful (provided they re genuine) ofc and any online service without review has to be used carefully, you're right !

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#164
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will give you a tip. * search hotel at booking.com * find that hotel at google * call them directly, by actual phone You will get a lower price always. Of course, you need to actually manually call them, which people don't want to do; but it always worked for me.

This might work in the US, but the rest 80% of the world... I am aware of booking's dirty tools to make you feel you have to book NOW! However, after around 100+ booking.com booking all around the world (including small villages in Amazonia or Laos) I am eternally grateful that for that extra 1$/night or so I get instant support with whatever probleem I had.

...I am living in Vietnam, part of the "80%", and doing this every time. It always works.

When speaking Vietnamese, you get an extra discount.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, loyalty just reduces the cost per click, but the math is the same, so they buy 100 people instead of 10 people with one reservation, but the game is the same. EDIT: also think about how many times people book per year, maybe 4-5 times in the upper quantiles? so if booking pays 3$ for you, it will take a couple of months until your next booking so they can reinvest your 15% commission to buy other people.

A a freelance consultant, Pre COVID I was easily booking 50 times/year

hotels.com gave one free night for every 10 nights, effectively a 10% discount. Change in contracts at work means I now book with ihg with massive discounts over hotels.com rates and get the points from them instead, but before then I'd get several weekends away for free each year.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what illegal consumer practice are you talking about. Reading through the points from the page you posted - I think internally only actions related to that were basically to add more info (e.g. popup/hover or just "on our site") to clarify to people that same as every other marketplace on the Internet ... cough Amazon cough ... Things we show are just things we know about and have in our "inventory". And act…

> Not sure what illegal consumer practice are you talking about. > I was part of "Consumer Psychology Team" at Booking.com for years. That team was/is one way or another involved in pretty much every functionality you mentioned You were part of a team that cooked up new ways to harm consumers. Playing the same word games here too is a bit tasteless. When your company is forced to "align practices presenting offers an…

I hope you realize that picking out only bits and pieces that fit your predetermined view is basically just reinforcing your personal biases, and not bringing you to see the bigger picture.

Though as long as someone doing that is impacting only that person - I don't mind.

However, I would appreciate if you didn't follow taking those bits and pieces you've selected. And then taking them out of context that I've said/wrote them in - re-combining them in ways that would bias others reading just your "curated" version.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#168
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naively without thinking about it. Session Id, setInterval sending a ping every few seconds, clear the id if the ping fails to arrive. Smooth it by taking an average or sum over anywhere between a few minutes to a few days, depending on what you're selling. Some things take more thought and as such those numbers can be quite a bit higher. There's no need to put any more thought in than that. It's a single design elem…

If you have real time analytics, you probably have a way to count visits to that page in the last X minutes. If I was a visitor, that number would be good enough for me. If the site also made it clear that it was not an exact number, it would of course be even better ("10 to 20" or similar)

For smaller websites the "send ping every X seconds", and/or combo of that with "onLoad do +1, onUnload do -1" might work.

Though for really big websites - with millions of users making requests to 1000s of web/api servers spread across DCs in different continents ... It's indeed a variant of what you said.

Analytics can give you confidence to say that X percentile of people spend at least Z seconds/minutes on given page. So you can use initial request + TTL value of Z.

---

PS All of the above is at least order of magnitude (if not even bigger) more complex when your page is not simply one physical product, and instead you've got "product x between Start and End dates" since that's millions of products x millions of combinations.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country is that, if you don't mind saying? I'd love to cite that example when friends who work in marketing start to babble about "cool tricks" they can do next time.

I'm not sure where the rules come from (law, business association regulation etc), but here are a couple of links for the UK. https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/marketing-and-selling/co... https://www.lewissilkin.com/-/media/files/main/insights/cmi/... You'll find similar rules in many European countries, though most won't be available in English. This document is, for Denmark: https://www.consumerombudsman.dk/media…

Ah, thank you for the links, hopefully translation tools will help me get at least the gist of the Danish document.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#170
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the end I wrote many of that stuff my own with real data If you implemented the "looking at" functionality, are you keeping a connection open to the client (say, via WS) to determine if they are still looking as in keeping the tab open (or opencv with camera access to see that they are "actually" looking hehe), or are you just looking a few minutes back instead of hours? How would one honestly implement this fea…

I didn't. I don't think this feature would reflect reality at all, or rather reality wouldn't sell. I have a few hundred products and a few hundred daily visitors, so I am far from big enough to get some relevant numbers there :) I would go for the minutes if I were big enough, or maybe a 1 hour time frame. However I opted for other signals that better reflect reality like 'bought X times in the last X days' or 'prod…

That's really good thinking - and both wishlist and "bought x times" are nice representation of the real world "social proof" where you're walking next to a store or bakery and see a long queue of people waiting to enter and making you notice they are selling something good/cheap/etc.

Generally going from those towards the "X other people are considering it", and even further towards "only X left" (on their own, and especially both in combination) puts you more towards different effect of "scarcity". And that's what seems to be more polarizing with people.

Besides majority of people not noticing/caring/etc ("bell curve"). Two opposite camps are where one is really not liking it (especially when they think it's not real and just fake scarcity) and vocal about it. Meanwhile on the other end are people finding it valuable info to know, and they tend to be much less vocal. (Which, yeah - is actually same with just about everything else)

Those that find it valuable seem to be people that want specific things. Not just specific apartment/hotel, but also think of cases like parents with school age kids being limited to specific dates due to school holidays or things of that nature.

Post reply on HN