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Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

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Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#31
post #18

I implemented this functionality for a certain SaaS with many large customers. I made sure to have a scalable way to measure unique viewers across different time frames. Only after we launched it, we realized all our competitors just put a random number that looked nice.

How did that turn out in the end? I presume having a real number is long-term optimal in terms of keeping customers compared to showing a fake number.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#32

Bit of a meta comment but: I love the author's rewriting of javascript into "human-readable" code[1], while retaining the same visual style as code written in an editor. It feels like an excellent way of representing what is inside the programmer's mind when writing the code, and I will probably try to replicate it next time I coach a new student. [1] https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*aXnY3j41mO3AShqSGiYgBA.png

Not sure if I'm the only one, but I start writing code like this quite often. At first it's "comment only" to describe what I'm trying to achieve and then I'm adding functional code in/around it. I find that really helpful, although some might say there's some "comment bloat" in the end, as I often keep the comments, too.

That’s called BDD, isn’t it? :-)

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#33
post #2

As shop owner that switches to Woo I dig into many plugins the last year and only find a very few of those attention and countdown plugins that are kinda honest. - The majority of 'users currently see this project' are looking a few hours back instead of being 100% fake. All of them allow faking the numbers somehow tho. There are plenty of 100% fake ones out there too tho. - 'xxx just bought' things are usually real…

> In the end I wrote many of that stuff my own with real data If you implemented the "looking at" functionality, are you keeping a connection open to the client (say, via WS) to determine if they are still looking as in keeping the tab open (or opencv with camera access to see that they are "actually" looking hehe), or are you just looking a few minutes back instead of hours? How would one honestly implement this fea…

Naively without thinking about it. Session Id, setInterval sending a ping every few seconds, clear the id if the ping fails to arrive. Smooth it by taking an average or sum over anywhere between a few minutes to a few days, depending on what you're selling. Some things take more thought and as such those numbers can be quite a bit higher.

There's no need to put any more thought in than that. It's a single design element, and you're not doing a scientific study or collecting marketing data here. This is fine.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#34
post #3

Is the idea that multiple people are looking at a product supposed to inspire me to purchase it? I really struggle to understand the logic.

Of course it works. Scarcity. Loss aversion. Validation. These are very strong psychological effects that are basically impossible to filter out completely, even if you know exactly what is going on and how brain works.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#35
post #28

The first time we booked a place on Booking.com, we were anxious the entire afternoon. Not sure if things have changed, but at that time they made it feel like a racing game, flashy countdowns, everything but THAT place sold out in the area, OTHER PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT IT, several email notifications in the span of hours because we haven't decided yet, and now it might be TOO LATE if we refresh the page. I wouldn't…

Booking.com is a terrible company in pretty much every regard. I've had a reservation to a hotel that was pretty full according to the website scare tactics, but when I got there I was the only person to come in weeks.

Also, their support is abysmal. Often when hotels fail to provide rooms as advertised, they play a "not my fault" game with the hotels, where the hotels claim they can't refund because the money is stuck with Booking.com while Booking.com claim the money is in the hotels account. Then they give you a "20% refund" that you can use on your next purchase there.

It also happened twice to me that they "double charges" me, with a pre-charge (that is deleted in a few weeks) and then with a real pay, which might leave you without money in your credit card if you have a small credit limit.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#36
post #26

It is like all those ".io" games (ex: https://agar.io/ ). You are supposed to play online against other players, but many of these games put you against bots instead. This is evident when you lose internet and the game still runs. The original idea was to first populate the game with bots and progressively replace them with real players as the game become more popular, then developers realized that if they could get…

[deleted]

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#37
post #26

It is like all those ".io" games (ex: https://agar.io/ ). You are supposed to play online against other players, but many of these games put you against bots instead. This is evident when you lose internet and the game still runs. The original idea was to first populate the game with bots and progressively replace them with real players as the game become more popular, then developers realized that if they could get…

You know what strikes me as a cheap way to run a bunch of bots to populate servers? Send users a wasm binary for running a bot and run several bots on a user's computer in the bg while they're playing themselves. Maybe check for resource usage and such, though. You can populate enough servers to keep a constant rate of growth up to some reasonable plateau because the amount of bots scales neatly with the amount of players, keeping a constant feeling of crowdedness as you spool up more real servers.

Eh, maybe just have the bots be part of the server software. They're not that expensive. But cool idea.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#38
post #28

The first time we booked a place on Booking.com, we were anxious the entire afternoon. Not sure if things have changed, but at that time they made it feel like a racing game, flashy countdowns, everything but THAT place sold out in the area, OTHER PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT IT, several email notifications in the span of hours because we haven't decided yet, and now it might be TOO LATE if we refresh the page. I wouldn't…

The way the pay-per-click machine works, is you pay like 3$ for 'hotels in amsterdam', their average (public info) commission is 15%. Looking at booking.com/amsterdam you can see vague idea about average price, lets say most bookings are 2 nights, then you can get ballpark average reservation of around 200$, 15% of that is 30$. So for each room they sell they can buy 10 clicks on 'hotels in amsterdam'.

This is super ballpark estimates, could be order of magnitude different, but the idea is that there is enormous incentive to push people to book, its the same as the example in the article, pushing people to buy. Purely because the pay-per-click is so expensive, you need ROI > 1 to survive.

Those companies are in survivor mode, and anything that is even remotely legal, or can be defended in court, is allowed and encouraged.

Thing like 70% off on pair of shoes, that just had their price increased by 90% for 1 minute, just so there was a record in the database that they actually had higher price, nobody cares that they never sold at the high price.

Companies constantly push the legal boundary.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#39
post #26

It is like all those ".io" games (ex: https://agar.io/ ). You are supposed to play online against other players, but many of these games put you against bots instead. This is evident when you lose internet and the game still runs. The original idea was to first populate the game with bots and progressively replace them with real players as the game become more popular, then developers realized that if they could get…

You know what strikes me as a cheap way to run a bunch of bots to populate servers? Send users a wasm binary for running a bot and run several bots on a user's computer in the bg while they're playing themselves. Maybe check for resource usage and such, though. You can populate enough servers to keep a constant rate of growth up to some reasonable plateau because the amount of bots scales neatly with the amount of pl…

In gaming, trusting the client with any responsibility will almost always result in hackers causing grief for you.

Re: Are 14 people really looking at that product? (2020)

#40
post #31
post #18

I implemented this functionality for a certain SaaS with many large customers. I made sure to have a scalable way to measure unique viewers across different time frames. Only after we launched it, we realized all our competitors just put a random number that looked nice.

How did that turn out in the end? I presume having a real number is long-term optimal in terms of keeping customers compared to showing a fake number.

No one ever really cared either way, except when we rarely had issues and the number came back as 0.
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