Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#71

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #64

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A single person can not do it in a professional and repeatable way. Putting aside whether this is even true, there is no requirement for a substack to always be exactly one individual, or for that individual to be unable to hire a third party proof reader or fact checker. That still doesn't require a billion dollar media corporation. There is also no requirement for it to be opinion rather than factual reporting. M…

You just defined a news company.

Yet that thing is not a publicly traded multi-billion dollar media corporation.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#72

Post by bduerst » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

joedevon wrote: post #60

tqi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have a really rosy memory of local newspapers, but I grew up in a small midwest town with an "award winning" local newspaper in pre internet days, and I remember it mostly consisting of poorly written drivel and AP wire articles.

I'm sure it was a mixed bag but Corporate Media did not break the Epstein story. They famously avoided it, @see Amy Robach and ABC News leak. The Miami Herald, a local paper, broke the story thanks to a great journalist there. IMO you are really discounting just how massive the importance of local journalism has historically been. PE firms are now buying up and destroying these once great outlets, including the Miami…

I don't think the local newspaper in their community would have broken the Epstein news story either. The Miami Herald is one of the largest in Florida, and where many of Epstein's crimes took place.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#73

Post by kragen » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:11 PM UTC

This was predicted in the EPIC 2014 video in 02004. If you haven't seen it, it's a very thought-provoking look at the future of news. The original requires Flash, of course.

It got a few things wrong. It doesn't mention filter bubbles and algorithmic radicalization, for instance.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#74

Post by netcan » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:11 PM UTC

gerash wrote: post #47

The most important factor is that on the internet local news media lose their geographical monopoly. So everyone can subscribe to NYT or WSJ no matter where they live. This effectively creates a winner takes all situation like in many other industries which get closer to a free market. Add to that the fact that classified ads have been taken over by likes of ebay, LinkedIn, craigslist, etc. Basically the business mod…

I agree with most of this, but I suggest a 2nd look at the concept of free market. Free from what? Geographic locality? It's notable that Adam Smith's free market seems to have been free also of monopolies and cartels.

In any case, whether an open internet would have resulted in newspapers' bankruptcy is speculative... even though I share your speculation. What actually happened was that FB & google achieved control over who sees what on the internet, who earns ad revenue and how much. That is how their business models actually died. It makes sense to sue, lobby, beg or otherwise try to get what you can from them. There is no market, just them.

Maybe it would have happened anyway in a free market, but it didn't happen that way. What happened was that big tech took over content delivery and online advertising.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#75

Post by ipaddr » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:12 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #70

BitwiseFool wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"This then led to deterioration of journalism and its inevitable transformation into sensationalism and entertainment, again driven by the incentives of the ad-monetized business model, because clickbait makes more ad money." People have this notion that the media used to be way more honest and impartial before the digital age but I doubt that was ever the case. Papers were playing fast and loose with the truth long…

Also Yellow Press , which was the big fake news of the late 1800/early 1900s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism For a while during the last half of the 20th century, this type of sensationalism was staved off though, as the FCC had determined anyone with a news broadcast license had the public responsibility to present different sides to controversial issues. And for a while, it worked pretty well. This…

Thank you for your research and insight. I was trying to figure out why both sides stopped being presented.

In the 90s, 2000s both sides were still presented until Omaba, got really bad under Trump. Now a cnn panel of 6 people all have to agree with each other or they won't be back next week.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#76

Post by bsedlm » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:12 PM UTC

gerash wrote: post #47

The most important factor is that on the internet local news media lose their geographical monopoly. So everyone can subscribe to NYT or WSJ no matter where they live. This effectively creates a winner takes all situation like in many other industries which get closer to a free market. Add to that the fact that classified ads have been taken over by likes of ebay, LinkedIn, craigslist, etc. Basically the business mod…

It's as close as they can get to suing the internet

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#77

Post by bduerst » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:13 PM UTC

babypuncher wrote: post #62

annexrichmond wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love a subscription service that gives me access to all my local news sources

My idea has been to build a centralized subscription service, somewhat like Apple News, but structured differently. You buy a monthly subscription that grants you credits each month. You can allocate those credits to whichever news sources you want, and for that month you get unlimited access to your chosen outlets.

That's just monthly newspaper subscriptions with extra steps.

Better to do the music subscription route, where the user sub revenue is automatically divided amongst all the newspapers the user accesses for the month.

IIRC Google tried to do this with display ads, where you would see pictures of cats instead of display ads on the news pages and pay the website the few cents they would have made on the impression. Dunno what happened to it but people who are willing to pay for content always overestimate the size of the market of other people who are willing to do the same.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#78

Post by jccalhoun » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

I have long said the problem with paying for news is that it is rarely worth paying for. When I was in grad school there was a program that gave us "free" copies of the NYTimes and USA Today (I'm sure part of our tuition paid for it but all we had to do was swipe our student id to open the newspaper box). I would get them every day and there were rarely more than one story in them that I would actually read.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#79

Post by bduerst » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:18 PM UTC

wodenokoto wrote: post #30

deadalus wrote: post #28

I HATE clicking on a Google link and discovering that it's paywalled. It's a massive waste of time.

Why is this even allowed by google? It’s a bait and switch similar to serving visitors and search engines different content.

Many news websites won't paywall the first article from a Google Search (WSJ is one though).

I'd be willing to bet in these instances you're using a traffic blocker or privacy extension that's clearing HTTP referer or some other means by which the website detects you're from Google instead of being direct (paywall) traffic.

Re: Over 200 newspapers now involved in lawsuits vs. Google, Facebook

#80

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 8:18 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #26

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #13

The newspapers have missed the opportunity to monetize for themselves and now need to roll out everything anew. As they should, today's google amp links are much worse content wise than daily mail articles, and that's one hell of a low bar.

>The newspapers have missed the opportunity to monetize for themselves What do you think that opportunity was for most even decent-size city newspapers? A few national/international brands have done OK but that's because the NYT, say, has subscribers all over the world. Even something like the San Francisco Chronicle never had that same opportunity. Maybe if everyone had pushed back harder on making content available…

They could have formed a joint venture to build a Craigslist killer, go after MLS listings, any number of things that would enhance their traditional business with desirable services. Instead they just stood by and watched the world change.