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Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

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Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#301

Post by IncRnd »

DangerousPie wrote: post #20

I know this sounds horrible but in the days of covid and working from home, what are companies supposed to do if they have to lay off large amounts of people? Make them all risk their health to come to an in-person event, only to be fired? Drive to every employee's house to fire them in person? It obviously sucks but I don't see how, in 2021, this is any different from the kind of thing that would happen all the time…

It is likely there were HR reps or even managers of the fired individuals. Those managers could have spoken with the people. There doesn't need to be a zoom meeting of almost a thousand people getting fired.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#302

Post by 0des »

benreesman wrote: post #298
0des wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a few qualms with this comment: 1. For a person who just lost their job, you can already search for such an opportunity yourself quite trivially by getting a resume, editing it locally with notepad, and then using email to send it. From Windows or Mac, this resume could be accessed through built-in software. 2. It doesn't actually replace a new job prospect. Most people I know choose to promote their startups…

I’m confused by this comment. Are you arguing that the GP is engaged in unethical behavior, engaged in bad business, being insensitive, cluttering the thread with a low-value contribution, or some door #N that I’m failing to see?

The latter

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#303

Post by honkycat »

post-it wrote: post #54
DangerousPie wrote: post #20

I know this sounds horrible but in the days of covid and working from home, what are companies supposed to do if they have to lay off large amounts of people? Make them all risk their health to come to an in-person event, only to be fired? Drive to every employee's house to fire them in person? It obviously sucks but I don't see how, in 2021, this is any different from the kind of thing that would happen all the time…

The Zoom call part isn't really the issue, although individual Zoom meetings would have been better. > In another email obtained by Forbes last year, Garg wrote: > > ‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”

This dude is embodiment of why we created agile. What a childish way to look at engineering.

Product: "What are you working on?"

Engineering: "That is up to you. What is important? The answer can't be everything."

Product: "Why is it taking so long?"

Engineering: Here is what the developers expect it to take. It will almost certainly take longer. When are we supposed to get X project done with our current workload? What falls off? If we crunch we will lose our best talent who will leave to go do the same work for more pay somewhere else.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#304

Post by SkittyDog »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #196
SkittyDog wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, they only started reviewong employee data ONE MONTH ago?? Thats some serious management incompetence. What's with this weaselly language, too... "At least 250 employees" also means "No more than 250 employees". If it was more, they would have just said the bigger number to prove their point. Which means the other 650 employees they fired did not have productivity problems, and they're just trying to blame their…

250 were 2 hours per day. This leaves a lot of room for workers <8 hours.

Of course, there's a huge gulf of possibility, and he definitely creates the impression that those 900 people were fired for being bad employee... But I'm awfully concerned that you're so willing to take this guy at face value, uncritically.

You know what else he doesn't say? The median, mean, & mode of his workforce's productivity (hours/day)? Also, how have those productivity numbers changed, over time?

What if the mortgage market is slowing, and his company is ASSIGNING LESS WORK to those 250-900 employees than it did, previously? That means his market is drying up quickly, and his company may be at risk... Better not let the media know about that!

What if the median/average productivity of his entire workforce is only 2.5 hours/day, because it's so poorly managed that those people aren't being given useful tasks to do? That would mean management is incompetent, and we DEFinitely better not let the media know about that!

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#305

Post by manuelabeledo »

sneak wrote: post #286
manuelabeledo wrote: post #269

I find disgraceful that this guy is putting the blame on his employees. It is clear that: 1. There is no way competent managers would let 15% of the workforce slip so hard, that they are fired for "performance reasons", and 2. If these performance measurements were valid, most of the now fired employees would have been fired long time ago. Any normal company has quarterly performance reviews, and management has to fo…

> There is no way competent managers would let 15% of the workforce slip so hard Possible, even likely, that 900 layoffs probably encompasses some less than competent managerial staff?

And that is fine. Where are their managers, though.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#307

Post by ripper1138 »

pixelgeek wrote: post #86

I would also like to point out that there is no actual proof that there was the type of employee shenanigans he talks about. He also says "The 43-year-old CEO said that the “market has changed” and that the company had to lose weight in order to remain agile enough to adapt to the evolving housing market, which appears to be cooling after a pandemic-boosted boom." So maybe the 'people stealing time' comment is just a…

How do you know there’s no proof? Not like they’re gonna write a blog about it.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#308

Post by golergka »

VRay wrote: post #279
jmull wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...only hired dishonest employees? Apparently this is 9% or 15% of the employees (there's some discrepancy). So not "only". I agree that it's on management if employees are only working 2 hours a day and getting paid 8... but one of the things management can do about it is lay off the excess employees. Either they aren't needed or they need some different people.

9 percent of your workforce isn't going to work 2 hours a day, man. Almost nobody can handle being that much of a lazy, sleazy piece of crap. What probably happened is that the idiot CEO decided to check productivity via some BS metric, then discard all the time his employees had to spend on anything else I've been on the receiving end of that before, it's infuriating.

> Almost nobody can handle being that much of a lazy, sleazy piece of crap.

What are you talking about? Entire countries have been doing it for decades before ending up bankrupt.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#309

Post by pirate787 »

obstacle1 wrote: post #182
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this looks bad but I generally appreciate manage giving clear warnings like this before firing. I have seen firings in companies where employee had no clue that the manager was not happy with him. I know this type of warning is the thing that would get published in the press by disgruntled employee and so managers couldn't give negative feedback and in the firing speech managers just tell that someone is not a…

"You're moving slowly and dropping tasks. That is impacting the business and we are losing customers. This needs to change by next month/quarter/whatever." vs. "YOU ARE A DUMB DOLPHIN BLAH BLAH BLAH" Massive difference. The former is a warning rooted in a sincere desire to lead the org/employee towards positive change. The latter is verbal abuse that accomplishes nothing but placating the ego of the abuser.

The context here is the mortgage market is declining as rates rise. These are people who mostly were performing but there's no longer a market fit.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#310

Post by basisword »

0des wrote: post #190
sergiotapia wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, he was supposed to do more than just tell a bullshit sob story That's what I'm asking. Specifically, what do you personally think would have been a better approach to let go 900 people?

Send a direct deposited and generous severance on Friday. Monday, have in person meetings with these departments, with the financial reassurance that the parachute is firmly installed on their back to have the next 6 months to comfortably find new accommodations. The last step is optional, but in the past I've seen these CEO's have previously arranged a soft landing place in other businesses for the people they have…

In what world can a company that has to lay off 900 people also afford to pay them for the next 6 months?

It’s a terrible situation for the employees (and better US employment laws would certainly help) but none of your suggestions are even borderline realistic.

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