Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call • Hacker News Board

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#181

Post by treeman79 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

sdfghderwg wrote: post #139

wedowhatwedo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each person being laid off deserves a private meeting with their manager where they are told this. The fact that they hired 900 people they now no longer need is a failing of the CEO by itself. If they work remotely, it can be a zoom meeting. Being told in a meeting with 900 people by someone you don't know is rude and tells me that anyone in leadership in this company are people I would not like to work for. The fac…

Lets think it through. Even if each person is given 5 minutes of personal time with the person doing the firing, at 8 hours per day assuming no breaks, that's 5 * 900 / 60 / 8 = 9 days. Almost two business weeks. That means that 900 people will have a zoom meeting scheduled two weeks ahead of time, and while they wait they see that everyone who goes into that meeting is fired. Does this sounds like a better way of do…

Heard many stories of it being done this way. Extreme anxiety for everyone as people wait to see if they get called in.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#182

Post by obstacle1 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #145

post-it wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Zoom call part isn't really the issue, although individual Zoom meetings would have been better. > In another email obtained by Forbes last year, Garg wrote: > > ‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”

I know this looks bad but I generally appreciate manage giving clear warnings like this before firing. I have seen firings in companies where employee had no clue that the manager was not happy with him. I know this type of warning is the thing that would get published in the press by disgruntled employee and so managers couldn't give negative feedback and in the firing speech managers just tell that someone is not a…

"You're moving slowly and dropping tasks. That is impacting the business and we are losing customers. This needs to change by next month/quarter/whatever."

vs.

"YOU ARE A DUMB DOLPHIN BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Massive difference.

The former is a warning rooted in a sincere desire to lead the org/employee towards positive change. The latter is verbal abuse that accomplishes nothing but placating the ego of the abuser.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#183

Post by danaris » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

sdfghderwg wrote: post #139

wedowhatwedo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each person being laid off deserves a private meeting with their manager where they are told this. The fact that they hired 900 people they now no longer need is a failing of the CEO by itself. If they work remotely, it can be a zoom meeting. Being told in a meeting with 900 people by someone you don't know is rude and tells me that anyone in leadership in this company are people I would not like to work for. The fac…

Lets think it through. Even if each person is given 5 minutes of personal time with the person doing the firing, at 8 hours per day assuming no breaks, that's 5 * 900 / 60 / 8 = 9 days. Almost two business weeks. That means that 900 people will have a zoom meeting scheduled two weeks ahead of time, and while they wait they see that everyone who goes into that meeting is fired. Does this sounds like a better way of do…

Taking the time to do it with respect for the individuals, rather than treating them all like interchangeable fodder?

Yeah, that seems better to me.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#184

Post by chrisseaton » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #165

chrisseaton wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can warn people about their performance without using abuse.

Abuse? Really? Is a single email where someone vents frustration for 2 lines actually abuse ?

Yes name calling - 'dumb'.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#185

Post by tmp_anon_22 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

People in this thread are acting like it has to be a 900 person meeting or 1:1 meetings.

Middle managers should be able to lay off their own reports in small group settings.

Even if this is impractical upper-middle managers should be able to lay off like-grouped employees in groups of ~10-15.

A mass lay-off is not an opportunity for the CEO to play the victim and talk about his feelings and how hard it was for him, when he did not take a paycut to keep a single of those employees on.

I'm 26 and I know this. Jesus.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#186

Post by daenney » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #145

post-it wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Zoom call part isn't really the issue, although individual Zoom meetings would have been better. > In another email obtained by Forbes last year, Garg wrote: > > ‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”

I know this looks bad but I generally appreciate manage giving clear warnings like this before firing. I have seen firings in companies where employee had no clue that the manager was not happy with him. I know this type of warning is the thing that would get published in the press by disgruntled employee and so managers couldn't give negative feedback and in the firing speech managers just tell that someone is not a…

What warning? 900 people were let go without any warning best I can tell.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#187

Post by bumby » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #144

tyingq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what seems right to me. It's not the virtual nature, it's the lazy mass group layoff that's objectionable and disrespectful. If you're being laid off, you probably have a lot of questions. A 1:1 meeting would allow for that.

Disagree. Why make the HR team go through 900 individual calls? At the same time this will leak and other employees will learn that they might get fired before they get their own call. Recipe for disaster. Just rip off the band aid.

I think it boils down to leadership is really about managing relationships. This method is just too impersonal for most people, just like breaking off a romantic relationship via text is generally considered weak and frowned upon.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#188

Post by redleggedfrog » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

If that was my CEO, I'd have been working 2 of my 8+ hours and trying to get away with it, too. Probably have another job at the same time.

That it took him so long to realize that it was happening shows he's incompetent, not just an asshole.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#189

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

throwaway6734 wrote: post #93

wedowhatwedo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each person being laid off deserves a private meeting with their manager where they are told this. The fact that they hired 900 people they now no longer need is a failing of the CEO by itself. If they work remotely, it can be a zoom meeting. Being told in a meeting with 900 people by someone you don't know is rude and tells me that anyone in leadership in this company are people I would not like to work for. The fac…

>The fact that they hired 900 people they now no longer need is a failing of the CEO by itself How so? Business circumstances are constantly changing

You don't hire 900 people over one Zoom call. At some point, you have to figure out if you are hiring too many people, so you don't end up in a situation like this.

Re: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call

#190

Post by 0des » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #180

1_player wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an extraordinary sacrifice to be asked of 900 people. Yes, he was supposed to do more than just tell a bullshit sob story how "last time he had to do that he cried." Fuck him. If you have hired 900 people that have become "useless", it is your duty as CEO to treat each firing with respect and understand that it might cause a ton of stress for some. What the fuck are you even paid for if you can't even do that jo…

>Yes, he was supposed to do more than just tell a bullshit sob story That's what I'm asking. Specifically, what do you personally think would have been a better approach to let go 900 people?

Send a direct deposited and generous severance on Friday.

Monday, have in person meetings with these departments, with the financial reassurance that the parachute is firmly installed on their back to have the next 6 months to comfortably find new accommodations.

The last step is optional, but in the past I've seen these CEO's have previously arranged a soft landing place in other businesses for the people they have to let go. Just because their position at this business went up in smoke doesn't mean their skills went with it. Lining up at least an interview with a competitor would have been classy.