When the new ToS event occurred, I tried contacting WhatsApp to delete my account and my data. Their answer was that I could submit that request through the App. But accessing the app required accepting the new ToS. I couldn't get through to the support person that this would violate the whole reason I wanted to delete my account.
WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
151–160 of 178 posts
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Telegram is now going to force ads and block apps that don't show them.. And their chats are not even E2E encrypted except their 'secret chats' but they work only on one device and don't work in groups.
I don't like ads either, but they're only going to be in channels, not in groups and private conversations. And if someone really wants to block ads, there are alternatives: * Build and install a custom client with your own API key, and don't share it with anyone * Use an Xposed module (already exists) or Cydia tweak if you're willing to root/jailbreak your phone As for the encryption, it depends on your threat model…
> As for the encryption, it depends on your threat model. Yes, full E2E by default would be ideal, but even with their default cloud encryption they're probably a lot more trustable than Facebook & co. According to their FAQ, the data is scattered across servers in multiple jurdistictions, so a lot of governments would have to team up to get any data out of them.
Well, with WA I know they won't have access to it, except the metadata. With telegram I have to trust they they are probably more trustable.
And yes I know the metadata is more valuable anyway to the likes of FB.
But yeah the ads are going to be in Channels for now, I don't even use those. But I doubt it'll stop there. For me it's a bit like a bridge they cross that leads to a dark path. I don't mind paying for a good chat service but not with ads.
> But also, how do you handle convenient cloud backup/sync with full E2E? WhatsApp and Viber both constantly manage to lose messages for me when restoring after a device reset or switch
I don't really care about backing up my messages. But I send all my chats through Matrix now (with Bridges) so it keeps a log for me there (but on my own server). But I have not see this kind of issue with WA in the past when I did use that feature.
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Telegram is not end to end encrypted, and thus does not preserve privacy at all. The best way to get your friends to switch messengers is to not be reachable on the bad ones: ie delete your accounts and uninstall the apps . Retaining your account on bad platforms makes those platforms more attractive to other users and makes the world worse.
If both ends and the server are all controlled by the same entity: it largely doesn't matter if it's E2EE or not. You can obviously argue that they can't siphon away information at the server level; but if you don't trust whatsapp/signal/telegram at that level then you're boned anyway because they could quite easily activate the 'whatsapp web' function and exfiltrate information via whatsapp servers. Ideally we'd hav…
> IMO if you're going to use Whatsapp; it's the same as if you use telegram or signal; I understand that this opinion is controversial but you're choosing convinience over security and E2E doesn't mean anything if you have one entity controlling the ends.
E2EE is not the main concern any more for most though. Most messengers offer some form of it, and you're correct in saying it probably won't prevent the company from accessing your data. However, I think the point is about which company to trust with this sort of power. Actually, it's more like "which company is least likely to do [bad stuff] with my data?"
Currently, facebook is much higher on that list than the signal foundation -- at least in my book.
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> people would be better off by switching In the UK, everybody uses Whatsapp, from friends and family to businesses. That won't change until communication platforms are forced to make their products interoperable with each other. I can't use anything else because nobody else does, I would not even be able to book my Dog in to the Groomers because they won't answer the phone and only respond to Whatsapp. E2E encryptio…
> That won't change until ... you ask people to use an alternative. I got my entire family on to Signal about a year ago. I keep asking the BBC not to use WhatsApp. We'll see.
>would not even be able to book my Dog in to the Groomers because they won't answer the phone and only respond to Whatsapp.
Good luck getting businesses to move away from Whatsapp. I deleted my account and was able to get friends and family on Signal, but thankfully I don't have any businesses I interacted with that used Whatsapp (or Facebook). I might be missing out on products and services... But hey, at least I don't know what I'm missing. :)
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't recall specific deadlines for accepting the 2016 TOS Based on what I see in the archived article, it looks like accepting the TOS was a "roadblock" popup in the app -- you couldn't continue using the app without accepting the terms. Any accounts which hadn't accepted the terms after two years could have simply been closed for inactivity.
I never accepted the ToS and still get the popup ~20% of the times I open the client. Everything is still working. I just hit "<" when it pops up.
I left before the current change. From what I gather in news reports, they're not currently roadblocking on it, but they've said they will.
For the 2016 tos, we definitely roadblocked. I think it was display it once every X days, and after Y days, you couldn't send messages until you accepted the tos, server enforced. If you still didn't accept, your account would be idle and would be deleted 45ish days after the roadblock.
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not just use Signal instead?
Bad tools for moderating large channels, no bot support.
I don't know about the moderation tools for large channels, but bots should be possible: https://github.com/AsamK/signal-cli
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#157Instead of arguing how bad WhatsApp is in terms of privacy, people would be better off by switching to more privacy respecting alternatives such as Telegram or Signal. I know it's hard to switch if most of your friends are on WhatsApp, but you can talk to them and switch together.
Telegram is not end to end encrypted, and thus does not preserve privacy at all. The best way to get your friends to switch messengers is to not be reachable on the bad ones: ie delete your accounts and uninstall the apps . Retaining your account on bad platforms makes those platforms more attractive to other users and makes the world worse.
WhatsApp is end to end encrypted, but its owned by Facebook who can’t be trusted so it does not preserve privacy at all.
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not practical for most, but I think you can, by moving to the European Region. Comparing https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/terms-of-service/?lan... to https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/terms-of-service-eea/?lang=en , the EU version removes - “Ways To Improve Our Services. We analyze how you make use of WhatsApp, in order to improve our Services, including helping businesses who use WhatsApp measure the effecti…
It is utterly naive to think that Facebook does not plainly ignore the regulations here. They have done it everywhere else. And once the data is in the model, the Goose is cooked. Who cares about a few million fine? In fact, Facebook would be irrational not to train their algorithms on every single data point, regulations and opt outs be damned. And that people itt have found that their data says opt in no matter wha…
These kinds of behaviors won't really change until governments finally pull their heads out of their asses and ensure that regulatory violations above a certain threshold are aimed squarely at imprisoning or personally fining certain key decision makers inside a company. You know, actual people inside its structure, not just the monstrosity as a bloated, extremely wealthy business entity that can and will absorb fines as nothing more than a cost of doing business..
That they fine the corporate entity as well, sure, why not but that they also explicitly make it known that they will seek criminal charges against actual human beings who made specific choices and decisions to ignore certain major rules. Even if the top brass cover their asses with lawyers under such a regime, asking any subordinate to break rules will always be weighed with the question of "and will I be one of the ones who gets literally jailed for this being uncovered in court?" That wholly new chain of consequence-weighing might at least make blatant disregard for legal limitations more problematic for everyone at a company like FB and so many others. It might also make the leadership hesitate more because they'll rarely be sure if an employee they asked to do something illegal isn't also gathering evidence against them as he or she violates the rules under their orders.
Punishing malfeasance by applying nothing more than fines to multi-billion dollar corporate entities as abstractions is absurd nonsense. And it's funny in its hypocrisy, considering how "tough on big corporations" is a popular politician's theme that gets votes, only to be forgotten by both politicians, and apparently, voters as well once someone is in a position to make rules with real weight.
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Telegram is not end to end encrypted, and thus does not preserve privacy at all. The best way to get your friends to switch messengers is to not be reachable on the bad ones: ie delete your accounts and uninstall the apps . Retaining your account on bad platforms makes those platforms more attractive to other users and makes the world worse.
This works for some. However if the sports club of your kid uses WhatsApp to announce training times etc. your kid might miss information etc. Even niftier: In some countries Facebook created this "FreeBasics/internet.org" scheme where access to Facebook services is free. When travelling Indonesia WhatsApp was the only way to reach the landlords of guest apartments, taxi drivers, ... not even regular SMS/text. The st…
Tell the people in the sports club that you don't have WhatsApp and that it's rude to force parents to do business with Facebook just for their kids to play sports.
When you cave and install WA, you make it harder for the next parent, just as all the ones before you made it harder for you.
If you want to be rid of these things, you can't get there by using them because you think you have to.
Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
This works for some. However if the sports club of your kid uses WhatsApp to announce training times etc. your kid might miss information etc. Even niftier: In some countries Facebook created this "FreeBasics/internet.org" scheme where access to Facebook services is free. When travelling Indonesia WhatsApp was the only way to reach the landlords of guest apartments, taxi drivers, ... not even regular SMS/text. The st…
Tell the people in the sports club that you don't have WhatsApp and that it's rude to force parents to do business with Facebook just for their kids to play sports. When you cave and install WA, you make it harder for the next parent, just as all the ones before you made it harder for you. If you want to be rid of these things, you can't get there by using them because you think you have to.
The people in the sports club will roll their eyes at you because [they think] you are a tin-foil hat wearing lunacy who is paranoid about surveillance from the boogeyman. They will refuse to switch their mode of communication that works for them and everyone else for one person (you) who is just causing trouble for no reason.
The vast majority of people don't think Facebook is the abhorrent service it is, and an even larger majority don't realize WA is owned by Facebook.