HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads • Hacker News Board

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#111

Post by rodh257 » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 5:54 AM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #46

ddw wrote: post #43

Forget about HP for a minute. Are there any devs out there that are considering creating a WebOS app because of this new influx of users? I'm genuinely interested...perhaps it would be worth it.

Ok, I’ll pretend to be a VC. So you make a WebOS game/app. What kind of users do you expect to have? A whole bunch of cheapos who bought the tablet because it was $99. And how much do you think those people will pay for your app? Next question. Word of mouth. If those people like your app, they’ll tell friends. Will those friends have WebOS tablets? Let’s talk about the lifetime value of your code base. How long can…

Having just bought one of these, I'd say that I'm more likely to pay for apps as there is a short selection. For instance, on Android I wouldn't pay for Tweetdeck or similar, but on the touch pad I would, as there isn't many options.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#112

Post by stephen_g » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 5:59 AM UTC

teyc wrote: post #97

danilocampos wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business where they can extract enormous licensing fees from content sold at a much higher price point.

You are quite right. iPad apps have a much lower price point. Apple could have extracted significantly more rent if they hadn't allowed free apps.

But I doubt that the ecosystem would be anywhere near as large if the had, so doing that could have ended up making them a lot less money.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#113

Post by cturner » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 6:13 AM UTC

roc wrote: post #39

corin_ wrote: post #29

While selling at a loss to make profit on software doesn't look feasible in this market, here's an alternative suggestion, though I'm not sure if this is feasible either - just more likely than the first option. Sell loads at a loss, I mean really loads. Announce that the platform isn't dead after all. Use the fact that so many people have the devices to bring in app developers, make it a more desirable platform. The…

Being able to sell a $500 product for $200 says nothing about whether anyone would buy version 2 or 3 when the price goes back up to $500.

Costs will decrease in the meantime.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#114

Post by cpeterso » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 6:26 AM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #106

w33ble wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but recouping a $68-118 loss is more feasible than recouping a $168-218 loss. There's a decent markup on their accessories and the potential for app sales. If it drives enough demand and gets companies licensing their OS and selling hardware running it, they have a chance to make it work, and it's probably money better spent than any advertising they do. Look at it this way; before the fire sale, how often did…

I agree that this firesale is a valuable lesson in pricing, and HP clearly cut the price by more than they needed to to achieve their goal of unloading existing inventory, but there are more factors at play here than price alone. I'd bet that if HP had just lowered the price to $250 they would have sold far less units than are now selling on ebay for $250. The $99 price point set off a feeding frenzy on this sale, an…

Perhaps HP should covertly sell the new TouchPads through eBay for $250. :)

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#115

Post by shinratdr » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 6:52 AM UTC

noahc wrote: post #96

WiseWeasel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's whomever decided to set the price at $100 who should be fired. This excessive demand shows that they could easily have charged $150 or maybe even $200 for the 16GB version, and still gone through their supply, with less hassle for retailers, and less of a loss.

There is a such a thing as a demand curve. I bought the $100 one. Here's how I'd think about $100 -- I'd Bite $110 -- I'd Bite $120 -- Okay $130 -- Uh, maybe. I'll flip a coin. $140 -- It's an okay deal. I might pass. $150 -- I'd probably pass. That's my curve. Others have their own curve. If everyone is like me, which they're not, $125 is probably the right price point. I can't imagine spending $200 or even $150 for…

I think the fact that 32GB models at $150 sold out just as fast supports the idea that your "demand curve" is the one that is different from the average consumer.

Also in support of this are the crazy prices people are paying on eBay for them right now, upwards of $250 for a 16GB model. It's pretty clear they could have sold them off quite briskly at $150/$200, possibly even just as fast. It seems the resellers nabbed most of them anyways.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#116

Post by mahrain » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 6:57 AM UTC

WiseWeasel wrote: post #74

martingordon wrote: post #10

Whoever made this decision should be fired. "We took a $100m loss on the first batch of TouchPads, what's a couple million more?"

No, it's whomever decided to set the price at $100 who should be fired. This excessive demand shows that they could easily have charged $150 or maybe even $200 for the 16GB version, and still gone through their supply, with less hassle for retailers, and less of a loss.

Not just that, on eBay and various Amazon retailers the prices seem to have stabilized at around 250 USD or even up to € 250 in Europe. If HP chooses this price point most of the current demand will still be there, especially if I could just walk up to an electronics store and get one!

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#117

Post by ecaradec » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 10:14 AM UTC

shinratdr wrote: post #115

noahc wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a such a thing as a demand curve. I bought the $100 one. Here's how I'd think about $100 -- I'd Bite $110 -- I'd Bite $120 -- Okay $130 -- Uh, maybe. I'll flip a coin. $140 -- It's an okay deal. I might pass. $150 -- I'd probably pass. That's my curve. Others have their own curve. If everyone is like me, which they're not, $125 is probably the right price point. I can't imagine spending $200 or even $150 for…

I think the fact that 32GB models at $150 sold out just as fast supports the idea that your "demand curve" is the one that is different from the average consumer. Also in support of this are the crazy prices people are paying on eBay for them right now, upwards of $250 for a 16GB model. It's pretty clear they could have sold them off quite briskly at $150/$200, possibly even just as fast. It seems the resellers nabbe…

Also, the $99 pricing got them a lot of good press because it was a very good deal. An average deal would have no press so no sales, the sales are not a linear correlation of the pricing.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

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Post by josefresco » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 11:26 AM UTC

MONDAYC wrote: post #104

IT WAS SAID THAT ALL WHO SIGNED UP WOULD GET AN EMAIL TODAY AND THATS NOT TRUE.I CALLED AN SPOKE WITH A PERSON AND GAVE MY INFORMATION BUT DID NOT RECIEVE AN ALERT TODAY.

Did you yell at them on the phone? FYI that is why you got downvoted here. Caps lock is frowned upon and considered yelling in many online communities.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#119

Post by epscylonb » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 11:35 AM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #65

Tangential: I think HP's stock might be selling for less than the company's liquidation value at this point, depending on what you think of their patents. That's ignoring the fact that they also have some profitable high margin businesses. Sure, they're doing some boneheaded stuff lately, but I couldn't resist buying some. Buying $1 for 88 cents is usually a good move. I sold some TIPS bonds to buy shares. Disclaimer…

I would rather buy bitcoins.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#120

Post by epscylonb » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 11:51 AM UTC

jasontsui wrote: post #35

mikeknoop wrote: post #3

Did HP accidentally just find the best way to break into the tablet market? Sell hardware at a loss and make it up on software. Console makers have been doing it for some time now.

To make a significant dent in the market, enough to attract developers in droves (good ones at that) would require a significant user base. Im not sure they can afford to lose $200-300 every time they sell one and expect to recoup it in the lifetime of the product. The life cycle of the PS3 and Xbox 360 have been extended for that very reason. How many iterations of discounted tablet devices would HP have to sell bef…

It amazes me how long this console generation seems to be lasting. The XBox360 was released in 2005, at this point you would have thought we would know details about its successor, yet we know virtually nothing.

It is almost as if Sony and Microsoft have made an agreement to keep the current consoles going.