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Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

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Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#71
post #53

Nothing in the APL requires he transfer the git repos to them. If they own the license, he needs to update the license and copyright statements to match reality, maybe send them a courtesy copy in a tarball or whatever. That's all. Copyight cannot demand this ridiculous thing.

I would guess their position would be that they owned the code/copyright from the very outset, and didn't approve applying the APL to it. The license they want to use might be one that forbids posting the source code.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#73
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is automatically the employer's in the UK: the term is "in the course of employment", and no contractual language is required. The employer is effectively the author. What that term means is a matter of case law, and is different if you are contracted / self-employed. Typically it is interpreted in a pro-employer manner, and if you are employed to write code then then assume that all the code you write is y…

So does that mean there is literally nothing I can do about it? Except becoming a contractor?

Red Hat has an explicit clause in the contract allowing work on open source projects. As always best to consult a lawyer (not one connected to the company) if this is likely to be important to you.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#74
post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

You should absolutely continue this pursuit, but keep in mind that the biggest things you can do to avoid a legal dispute are to clearly communicate expectations and not work with assholes. A well-written contract is like a solid deadbolt on your front door: it’ll make reasonable people think twice, but a determined attacker will just smash a window and go through it (or, to explicate the metaphor, sue you anyway knowing the legal process itself is sufficiently painful to wear you down even if they don’t have a case).

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#75
post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

Just a note - in all places I've worked (BigCo's) they take a zero-tolerance approach to modifying the contract. It is their way or the highway. I guess they can afford to just say no and pass on you, rather than have loads of employees with their own unique snowflake contracts. Perhaps smaller companies are less strict, but IME big ones take zero shit in this regard.

Good luck.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#76

Here the question is even a little bit more interesting than just the "open source" code you created I think: There is lot of discussion about the ownership of the code, but what about the other things related to the project? Like stars and issues. In no way stars and issues belongs to the company, they belongs to each user that submitted them. They submitted them to the project that was on a specific username. So, I…

the account is fair game as company property as it is being used that way, so I'd always want a paper trail in either direction

ex: the White House account on Twitter is not the property of some social media manager but US Gov

we do a lot of OSS and are careful each time about upstream vs fork vs from scratch.. i think key parts of the Bumble story aren't being said because I'm struggling to imagine a modern eng culture where this would happen , and the author's repo seems savvy.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#77
post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

You need to get something that explicitly says what you want; if you want the freedom to work on one particular open source project then get them to give you that clause; but also thinkw hether you want it more general; It's very difficult because my understanding is you can't even do drive-by fixes in random projects without an OK.

I've gotten OKs before, but they were verbal and not written, basically my manager at the time stating they will "close an eye" and let me do it. The problem was the other eye was wide open and they did enforce their "all your code are belong to us" stance against me once (you could say I was in a similar position to OP just on a waaay lower magnitude, reason why I'm so invested in this right now).

For another project I've asked them to write me an email from their legal department stating I own copyright for that code and they won't try to claim it. They've done that after a few months passed... It's a small victory I guess.

But I want a proper solution we could all agree on (both as employees and as employers as both are relevant to me right now). Currently I'm gathering all the feedback in this thread and I would love to receive copy pastes from existing employment contracts to formulate a strategy.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#78
A note to Bumble, this makes me not want to work for you or anyone who is currently in a related leadership position at Bumble (ie: eng leadership, etc.). Given the lack of supply in engineering the bad publicity is going to cost you more than any miniscule gain.

edit: And I don't even publish OSS anymore but if you're willing to go after an employee for something this petty what else would you go after them for.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#79
post #66
post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

When I got my first programming job in Canada I've already had active product. I have informed them about it and I've also asked them to agree that whatever I am working on in my private time is my property as long as it is not in direct competition and / or not based on employer's code. They did not mind at all.

Was that agreement in writing, and signed? Could you share such a document, redacted if needed, with us?

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#80
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't what he said – just it's the employer's by default. So get a contract that makes your outside work explicitly yours.

OK, that's good to hear. But now I need suggestions and feedback... In a previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24220858 I've suggested the following: 13.8. $COMPANY and any Group Company will not attempt to claim copyright, intellectual property rights, nor patent right to any creation done outside of working hours (also known as employees free time), outside of the premises, and not using any $COMPANY…

Got to watch out with this one. My past experience is that even approving a PR on the company Wifi internet caused a lot of discussion regarding the use of company facilities
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