591–600 of 651 posts
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The comparison is also flawed in that Korea at least makes cheap and good stuff.
Israel should learn that lesson. The way to American hearts is through our phones! Worked for Nokia and Samsung.
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> I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever. Except the really obvious detail that most normal countries won’t extradite their citizens? Israel loosened up their laws on this a bit after the Sheinbein affair, but extraditing resident-citizens remains a rather unlikely prospect.
> Except the really obvious detail that most normal countries won’t extradite their citizens? I can’t even guess why you’d believe that. Participating in extradition treaties is the norm, not the exception.
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> You have to tacitly admit Israel and the US are democracies, to argue they are not perfect democracies (in your words "flawed"). This is a common logical fallacy. “You have to admit the existence God in order to not believe in him.” You could read my post as saying that: If Israel is a democracy, then it has a serious flaw . This is a value judgement on the state of democracy in Israel, not a simple binary: If Isra…
The context of this thread is fruitful. Someone claimed Israel isn’t a democracy - that “Israel may be considered a democracy, but only for the so-called "chosen people"" (they almost certainly mean for Jews / Jewish people). They make other spurious claims as well. I do not believe I am committing the logical fallacy you refer to. I don’t know if that commenter is either. I am not claiming democracy = good, and I am…
What is relevant is that a huge group of people under the authority of a government have no representation in the government. This is the antithesis of democracy. The people of Palestine are under the authority of the Israeli government but have no say in that government.
This is the reason people often say that South Africa wasn’t a democracy until after Apartheid ended in 1994. The fact that Namibians living and working in Namibia still cannot vote in South African elections has nothing to do with it since South Africa has no authority in Namibia.
> Is Spain not a democracy because of Catalonia? Ireland and the UK because of North Ireland, or Scotland? No, these aren't identical situations, and there are obvious differences - note the similarities instead of the differences.
I don’t know why you are bringing this point up now, Catalonians have the same rights as other Spanish citizens, including the right to vote to the national assembly. British citizens in Northern Ireland can still vote in British elections as they are under the authority of the UK and have the same rights as other British citizens. The same does not apply to Palestinians living under the authority of the state of Israel. The similarities here—the fact that a significant number of people want to secede—are superficial in this context. In the case of Northern Ireland the similarities are even less relevant since the UK allows Northern Ireland to secede and join the Republic of Ireland if demonstrated in a majority referendum, Israel does not grant that right to Palestine.
Just to reiterate, what sets Israel apart from other democracies is that a significant part of people living under the authority of the Israeli government are not guaranteed the same rights and freedoms you expect from other democracies.
> NSO Group said in a statement on Thursday that it did not have any indication their tools were used but canceled the relevant accounts and would investigate based on the Reuters inquiry. Why would they cancel accounts without knowledge of wrongdoing?
> Why would they cancel accounts without knowledge of wrongdoing? I’m not saying that they don’t have that knowledge, and I really don’t mean to offend or be rude, but if the US government asks something of you, you tend to comply wether it’s reasonable or not. I think it’s naive to think of ourselves as living in a just world. Post 9/11 the CIA abducted European citizens with the knowledge of our governments. In mor…
This is a typical "shadow government" symptom. You have forces working within the government that 1) have their own agendas; 2) have connection to international communities, usually military-intelligence ones; 3) have almost zero regulation; 4) even many high ranking government officials don't know about them because they are brotherhood-like closed circles. This reminds me of Operation Gladio or Propaganda Due but d…
“Shadow government” = “Deep state”?
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> I think it’s naive to think of ourselves as living in a just world. The US military entered a foreign nation without their knowledge or authorization, abducted a resident, took the resident out to sea, placed a bag over their heads, put concrete shoes on that resident, and then dumped them overboard with no witnesses other than the "Seal Team" carrying out the order. No trial. No witnesses. Only abduction, seclusio…
This was in response to acts of war and unprovoked attacks against the United States mainland with both military and civillian targets by an individual who had made a specific declaration of war against the U.S.: https://scholar.dickinson.edu/faculty_publications/277/ Comparing that speific case to failure to follow proper criminal procedure and rule of law is disengenuous to the extreme. There are many criticisms wh…
Since when do individuals wage "war" on nation-states?
(And no, if the only counter-examples you can come up with are 18th-century pirate chiefs and tiny Carribbean islands you've failed. We're talking 21st-century USA here.)
> Comparing that speific case
Which "specific" case? The GP mentioned hundreds of Gitmo prisoners, several of which have later been shown to be completely innocent victims of mistaken identity.
> to failure to follow proper criminal procedure and rule of law is disengenuous to the extreme.
If anything is "disengenuous to the extreme" here it seems to be your defense of the USA's recent practices.
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Regardless, NSO rules over international law.
No, it means that NSO takes customer complaints seriously, especially a customer as important as the US. They operate under Israeli legal jurisdiction, and probably have an existing relationship with US firms, public and private, and I don't think the Israelis would hesitate to take whatever action the US wanted, because it benefits them to "play nice" and be cooperative. It kinda sucks for them in this case because…
Mid-to-late 1990s, den Haag, Serbia?
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Ignorant question: is Israel literally an ally of the US? I know they are not in NATO or 5 Eyes, and I don't think they have some other close agreement, like US and Japan.
They have had consecutive Memorandi of Understanding that promise security collaboration and funding. The current one is a 20 year treaty that promises $38B in spending and expires in 2036.
Memoranda, AFAICT?
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Since you are a two month-old account whose comment majority is about defending NSO, it may not be easy to convince you.
I dont really give a crap about NSO.
Then why -- assuming for the moment that the GP is correct -- is the majority of your comments about defending them?
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They have had consecutive Memorandi of Understanding that promise security collaboration and funding. The current one is a 20 year treaty that promises $38B in spending and expires in 2036.
> They have had consecutive Memorandi of Understanding Memoranda, AFAICT?